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  #49  
Old 11-14-2014, 07:29 PM
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Re: Focals ISS 690, ISC 165 & Polk db351 install tutorial with pics

I understand that and agree with you. The stock speakers are trash.

I wanted to know because if I replaced the stock 8" Alpine sub with a 10" aftermarket sub(I know it fits because Harman did it) and added a 1 channel amp dedicated just for it, then the speakers will (maybe) receive more power. Changing the stock speakers to something high end would be nice because if the subwoofer load is off the amp and the stock amp simply feeds the other channels more, it will be enough, saves me space, time, and money. Normally I would buy subwoofer and an amp dedicated to it, AND, replace speakers and add 4 channel amp for them.

I don't know if you guys know, but the really high end car speakers have a 3 way crossover. Check out Swan D630, that's the best car speaker I know, and Swan brand in general is somewhat a secret in the industry. It's what I want in the JGC but it won't sound nice with stock amp UNLESS the extra power from lack of subwoofer will be distributed to the other channels.

I hope that helps you understand better.

On a extra note, what do you guys think of Swan MC25 for front center and Swan MS30 for rear surround? Will it fit? I wouldn't know, my car won't get here for two weeks. Driver size for MC25 is 2.5" and MS30 is 3", so keep in mind when looking at the pictures.
It's also a shame Swan makes no high end coaxials in 6x9". The fact is, circle has better acoustic properties than oval, so a high-end 6x9 is sort of an oxymoron. So is a high-end coaxial. (Kind of like Jeep SRT). It would have been nice, lol. Swan TC169 and CF169 are the only two 6x9 models, and the TC and CF series are on the budget side for Swans, but infinitely better than those Alpines. I had the Alpines in my 12 300 SRT, only difference was it used only 4x6.5" instead of 2(6.5)+2(6x9), and I literally had to switch everything out but kept the center channel because I think it only exists to make the safety chimes and beeps. Center and surround matters now because I have rear seat Bluray package in the Jeep. Movies are the ONLY time center and surrounds matter, stereo is not just "good enough", but actually better for music.

The dream I have in my head is:
A pair of Swan TC or CF169 (coaxial 6x9) in front door panels,
A pair of Swan D630 (3 way components consisting of midwoofer, mid tweeter, and high tweeter) and put the midwoofer in the rear doors, mid tweeters in the front dash, and high tweeters in the trunk/cargo roof area (I saw a little place for them when I looked at the dealership)
Swan F10 (10" subwoofer) in passenger-side trunk/cargo wall.
A small high quality single channel amp for the sub, I say small because I have seen people put small ones in their spare tire wall. Someone else here posted their amps attached to bottom of front seats without any wire exposure, I guess that works too.

Paul

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  #50  
Old 11-14-2014, 11:40 PM
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Re: Focals ISS 690, ISC 165 & Polk db351 install tutorial with pics

Greetings,

First of all, with regards to the excellent sub that comes with the glorious Alpine Premium system as the stock , IMHO, it is a waste of time upgrading it from an 8 inch to a 10 inch in the same enclosure. The time and effort you are going to spend on trying to improve the enclose for a new 10 inch driver will not give you the results you are looking for. Some of the problems for example of the enclosure are: wrong material and the volume for a sealed enclosure is not right for a 10 inch driver. The 3 best routes in this case is either the JL Audio Stealthbox, a custom enclosure in the same location or were ever it is designed for and finally, a pre-made box for the intend woofer that it was designed for and stick in the back of the cargo area.

Swan does make some nice products in both home audio and for the car audio. The price points are pretty good as well. So, for a company that is not a major name in the consumer world, many of us who been in the audio know about this sleeper of a company that has been around for many years. They are considered at the low end of the SQ audiophile market.

Getting back to your original question:

The 2 things that I think that is right in the Alpine system are the speaker concepts for the type of driver location used for a SQ surround sound system and the wiring and that is all. Believe it or not, you only need one (1) pair of tweeters for the hole setup unless you want an SPL loud club type. I found the stock speaker wire to be very good. Their are many opinions about having 6x9 in the front. I am in the camp that prefers a 6 inch or larger driver.

6x9 or 6.5"?

Which 6x9's?


Now, with the surround sound in car audio never think in terms of Home Theater. The car environment when playing music has different characteristics than your home. The problem we face here is the factory DSP is fixed in the settings. For some it is fine and for others it screws up the experience. Yes, the stock speakers based on Chrysler's specifications are nothing to write home about either. To correct this will require spending any were from a couple of Benny's (hundreds) to $$$$. If you have a JGC from 2011-2013, I always recommend changing the headunit out since the factory headunit is nothing to write home about.

Changing out the speakers and adding amps to some or all the channels can be done with the existing DSP. Remember, everybody perceives sound different from the next person. The xover settings and time delays might be good for you. And if not, then you have to invest in an aftermarket DSP. This is where it become expensive in terms of electronics. Here is a thread of somebody that was happy with their upgrade while keeping the factory DSP.

Full Audio System NO Line Out Converter

It boils down to type of speakers you select will determine the type of matching electronics that will take you the level you are looking for. This search link has some excellent threads regarding upgrades.

Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum

Best for now.
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  #51  
Old 11-15-2014, 06:05 AM
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Re: Focals ISS 690, ISC 165 & Polk db351 install tutorial with pics

Greetings helpful sir,

I am grateful for your in-depth reply.
First, it's hard to say Swan is low sq in audiophile market. The thing with them is they have such*a wide product range, lows to highs. There is no comparison in automotive world, it would be like Chevy selling everything it sells as well as chauffeurcars and hypercars. CES Award-Winning Swan 2.3B HT for example retails at almost $50k, that's more some of your WK2s! Is it good? I mean, it did win CES Innovation Award that year, but it's out of almost everyone's budget, and it's from the same company that also makes a $800 home theater set, and more than a dozen models in between.
Second, I would like to use as much of the Swan merchandise I already have. I technically don't even have the D630s, I only have FR600IIs on hand, which is 2 way crossover only (6.5 midwoofer with ribbon tweeter), but if I would order it because the D630 sounds better.
Are you saying I should change head unit AND buy line out conv? Or I only need one?
Isn't the sub encloslosure the same one on the Alpines as the Harmans with a smaller cutout? I have never seen pictures, but if it sucks that much, I may have to go the Stealthbox route. I kind of wanted to showcase the Swan subs, they are pretty insane, but I don't want to do it at the expense of cargo space and make my SUV useless. I need the space.
You also never answered about the Alpine power redistribution without the subs. Would the other channels go up or stay the same?
Please lead me in the right direction helpful sir. I'm not completely lost, but I want it perfect and appreciate your expert advice.

Paul
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  #52  
Old 11-15-2014, 07:54 AM
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Re: Focals ISS 690, ISC 165 & Polk db351 install tutorial with pics

Greetings,

To answer question regarding the Alpine Power, each channel is dedicated to the wattage configuration. Therefore, if you disconnect a pair of speakers, you will not receive a bump up in wattage.

Even through Swan it getting up their over the years and receiving nice accolades, some folks working in the industry are still debating if they are really at the top level yet. Raven sometime in the future will be finally releasing a car audio line and their Ribbon speakers will be finally available. I believe it will be thru Illusion Audio, which is another top audiophile line for car audio. A great source for Swan raw drivers is at Madisound. For those who do not know, HiVI is Swan.

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/hi-vi/

As I mentioned in my previous post about the difference between HT and car audio is 2 different environments, the biggest headache with SQ car audio is the conquering the off-axis response. And in particular with a surround sound setup. The ribbon which is are excellent drivers, IMHO, need to tweaked with a DSP to get the full potential of the driver within the car. This begins with playing with xover and time delay.

Best for now.
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  #53  
Old 11-20-2014, 03:54 AM
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Re: Focals ISS 690, ISC 165 & Polk db351 install tutorial with pics

Can the Alpine amp be replaced altogether?
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  #54  
Old 11-20-2014, 08:00 AM
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Re: Focals ISS 690, ISC 165 & Polk db351 install tutorial with pics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chieftain View Post
Can the Alpine amp be replaced altogether?
Greetings,

There are various ways to replace the Alpine amp and remove it.

With the uConnect 8.4 systems, you have to intercept the full range signals and depending how you do that you might have noise issues. Remember, once the Alpine is removed, you loose the surround sound, eq, time delay and crossover settings. Thus the need to have some sort of crossover in the amp or an aftermarket DSP Unit.

The current aftermarket push is to have built-in amp/dsp units. Good examples are from Audison and Helix. Helix's Match line has those products and I am not sure when Rockford Fosgate the US distributor is being them back in. Audison has the Prima line that has also a lot of options and they are shipping most of their products right now with more to come shortly. With the Prima, they use a version of their Bit Ten DSP with the built-in amp.

Amplifier Products Match, Audiotec Fischer GmbH | Innovative Car Audio

Audison Prima

http://www.wk2jeeps.com/audio/2014_w...io_diagram.pdf


Best for now.
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Old 11-20-2014, 07:42 PM
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Re: Focals ISS 690, ISC 165 & Polk db351 install tutorial with pics

I just installed the Focal 695 tweeter and bass on the drivers side door. This is a first for me when it comes to car audio. It took some time to get the door panel back on. The tweeter was easy to install by trimming the inner lip with an x-acto knife. The tweeter fits real snug and looks great. Once you have the panel off the install is a breeze. I used barrel connectors to attach the tweeter to the plug from the stock speaker. The sail molding was a trick/bitch to snap back in. Tomorrow I will install the passenger door and figure it will take 30 minutes to complete. Next is the rear doors and Stealthbox Sub. I may have the geeks install the sub with a 500 Watt mono Amp. Thanks to all the posts and instructions to get as far as I have.


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Old 11-21-2014, 10:56 AM
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Re: Focals ISS 690, ISC 165 & Polk db351 install tutorial with pics

^ Results? Are you happy with the outcome?
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Old 11-21-2014, 05:55 PM
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Re: Focals ISS 690, ISC 165 & Polk db351 install tutorial with pics

The results are very noticeable almost as if I added an amp to the head unit. The bass is incredible and the tweeters sound much more crisp. I still have the rears to do. I will update the group when the Stealthbox and mono amp goes in


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Old 11-21-2014, 07:46 PM
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Re: Focals ISS 690, ISC 165 & Polk db351 install tutorial with pics

When getting some other work done on the WK2, they applied a TSB upgrade to the amp. It may be psychological but I swear it sounds better.
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Old 12-02-2014, 10:49 PM
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Re: Focals ISS 690, ISC 165 & Polk db351 install tutorial with pics

I guess I have one question to ask, I noted in previous Posts that I am leasing my Overland. I do not like the Alpine Sound System at all but spending a lot of money and installing something that can not be removed easily when the lease is up is problematic.


Question, does it make a significant difference in sound to install the JL Audio Stealthbox and amp? I can easily have it taken out and resell it at the end of the lease but if it causes other issues to not enhance other speakers or simply does not sound that much better than I will stick with the stock set up.


Thanks Jay
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Old 12-03-2014, 08:08 AM
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Re: Focals ISS 690, ISC 165 & Polk db351 install tutorial with pics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawk57 View Post

Question, does it make a significant difference in sound to install the JL Audio Stealthbox and amp? I can easily have it taken out and resell it at the end of the lease but if it causes other issues to not enhance other speakers or simply does not sound that much better than I will stick with the stock set up.


Thanks Jay
Greetings,

The answer to that is yes and no. This is based on your own perception of sound.

With the Stealthbox you will finally hear the lower frequencies and a richer bass sound that does not get drowned out and lost with the stock. The factory DSP for the sub cut off is estimated in the area of 55-65hz which will work pretty good with the Stealthbox. Yes, this is an improvement here.

Now, with the lows changed out you might find the front door setup becomes even weaker. Again, this is based on your own perception of sound. Many here have swapped out both stock front door speakers for new ones and went with a 6.5 driver as opposed to a 6x9. A few posts up are links to the difference between the drivers.

Tweeter selection is based mostly on the type of music you like. Focal tweeters have a metal based sound that is tinny and bright. That is good for club music, pop, hip-hop, some rock. The other type of tweeters are a soft dome type of material that gives you a more natural sound. A few posts back is some references on the types of tweeters to help you determine what best for you.

IMHO, the factor here depends on how long is your lease for and does it pay to invest in the upgrade. Also, another key point is how much time do you spend in the JGC listening to the music. They way I would approach this is by changing swapping out the front door speaker first and after a month or so when the speakers break in, determine if that is all you need. Figure for this first step to spend around $350.00 for speakers plus the install. Then after that you want the bass, then go for the Stealthbox.

If read the various threads and posts, to correct the Alpine system does require spending some major Benny's to correct it.

Best for now.
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