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  #109  
Old 09-21-2014, 04:24 AM
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Re: From the horses mouth on the Harman Kardon System

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Originally Posted by Radknight View Post
First off, I don't want to turn this into a negative post. I'm just trying to separate marketing spin from real specs.

I've been searching around for how much actual wattage the HK amp has and how much power is supplied to each channel, with no success. To make things even more confusing check this out from the HK website:

"Jeep‘s 1st high voltage GreenEdge Class-D amplifier with tracking power supply and 900 watts equivalent* total output"

See the asterisk there? They don't follow up. Anybody got any suggestions?

Harman Kardon + JEEP
Greetings,

On an active (electronic) crossover system, you need less wattage to pump the speakers than dealing with passive crossovers. Based upon that for speakers A & B as per the HK link, that is 14 speaker drives the amp has to take of for mid's and high's. There alone you do not much power. Next up is the low bass and mid bass in 5 speaker drivers, consisting of C, D & E (some say speaker E is a ) . These are your wattage hogs. BTW, my going with the amperage of the fuse will not give you an exact number. You do not know if they calculated any overhead into fuse to prevent from blowing prematurely.

So, is the 825 continuous (RMS) power or peak (Total) power is the question that eludes many HK dissatisfied audiophiles.

For example to guess at RMS wattage:

Let's say the 10 inch sub which is 2 ohms is 250 watts.
For the 6x9's say 150 watts and the 6.5's 100 watts. And let's say the remaining 14 speaker is 30 watts a piece.

My question for the HK folks does the sound coming out of this system sound like it pushing near this numbers. If you put on a heavy bass track on, you should be able to hear. In fact, you should feel the air move by your feet in the front next to the 6x9's. If you put an empty shoe box next to the sub, box should be moving a cross to the left side. If this is happening, you should be somewhere near the 825 RMS and going into peak at various times.

My system which is not an HK, is a 10 speaker active crossover with 1200 watts. The front 6.5 is powered by 75 watts rms per channel and you can feel the air for sure move. And my gains are not at full power either, so I rarely go into peak.

If this indeed 825 RMS, you should not have any distortion when you start raising the volume. I know some members have complained that at high volumes the sound gets worse or they get that so called ear bleed effect.

The other equation to this puzzle is the headunit itself. Unless I missed something in the block diagram, I did not see any indication that the signals going into the amp is a digital signal and I did not see any indication that their was a digital to analog converter. So, if this is an analog path, how effect is the voltage going into the amp? This has effect on the amp as well.


BTW, the MB folks that are looking for serious music have the same problems with the HK. So go figure.


Best for now.

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  #110  
Old 09-21-2014, 06:31 AM
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Re: From the horses mouth on the Harman Kardon System

Some good points. I do actually get that air on my leg from the 6x9s when I'm pumpin' some bass so I believe there's some power behind them. It's a shame they have to supplement the sub in the back so much so I'm cautious about swapping them out with a quality 6.5 although they should produce accurate, tight bass. I reinforced my sub enclosure last weekend with FatMat which has brought more bass out of that 0.7 cubic foot box.

Another thing I'm wondering about, keeping in mind that I've never worked with smallish electronics stuff just big power electronics and high voltage stuff; the 35 Volt Tracking Power Supply that the H/K systems uses. Perhaps they are using a DC to DC Boost converter that increases voltage and thereby reduces current and that is why they can run off of just a 30 amp fuse and claim to be more efficient and run so many speakers off such a small amp. Not a bad idea. Can anybody with a bit of knowledge chime in on this?
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  #111  
Old 09-21-2014, 10:00 AM
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Re: From the horses mouth on the Harman Kardon System

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radknight View Post

Another thing I'm wondering about, keeping in mind that I've never worked with smallish electronics stuff just big power electronics and high voltage stuff; the 35 Volt Tracking Power Supply that the H/K systems uses. Perhaps they are using a DC to DC Boost converter that increases voltage and thereby reduces current and that is why they can run off of just a 30 amp fuse and claim to be more efficient and run so many speakers off such a small amp. Not a bad idea. Can anybody with a bit of knowledge chime in on this?
Greetings,

It could very well be they are using DC to DC Boost converter and loading up an internal capacitor to handle peak power. In a normal 14.4 volt system, the fuse could be any where from 60 to 80 amps for a Class A/B amp running at 825 rms and less if it is a Class D.

A close analogy for the booster converter would be the massive toroidal power transformers they put into home audio or pro amps. Thus their is enough energy stored to handle the loud sections of music and prevent any type of possible distortion. Both Onkyo and NAD are known for their power supply technology and most middle level audiophile always like their gear.

So, it looks like HK figured out a way to achieve raising the volume using an efficient energy system. The speaker sensitivity is matched to the amount of wattage needed for the increase in volume. Sound engineers refer this as the 3 db principle. In short, sound levels increase for every 3 db in change and they figure out how much wattage is needed to perform those operations to the max of the speaker before it goes boom.

My physic is very rusty after this years, I know their are some engineers out their and would be nice if they would chime in as well.

With regards to the other headaches of the HK system, Harman has to follow the specs given to them by Chrysler. Like I tell everybody, sometimes a OE premium system is not good for some and superior for others. It would be a nice option if the car manufactures gave access to the DSP so that we could tailor the sound to our liking. Then again the aftermarket world would raise hell.

Best for now.
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  #112  
Old 10-02-2014, 02:16 AM
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Re: From the horses mouth on the Harman Kardon System

I'm swapping out all the front "HK" speakers for HAT Legatia's (L6SE, L3, and L1V2). Does anyone know what the crossover points are on the HK Logic7 Amp/Processor that I'm leaving in?

For the meantime, I'm going to keep them all active but put a 6.8uF Cap on the tweeter to protect it and crossover at ~5000Hz as it's directly connected to the Midrange 3.5"

Does anyone have a spare single HAT L3 Midrange they want to sell? I need one for my centre channel
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  #113  
Old 10-18-2014, 01:49 PM
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Re: From the horses mouth on the Harman Kardon System

Does anyone know if all the subwoofers in the door panels are the same? I only ask because I bought my car with the rear driverside door speaker blown. I brought it to a dealer off of the 440 in New Jersey and they ordered me a new speaker and when I brought in the car they replaced perfectly fine speaker in my front driverside with the one I ordered! To make things better my cars memory buttons don't work the locking button for the windows don't work and the little light in the handle doesn't light... Smh so my driverside speaker is technically replaced with my rear driverside speaker.. Already having issues early with this car.. Smh perfectly untouched door now touched and messed up for no reason.. One problem into 4 problems with in 3 hrs that it took them to swap out the speaker... Any info is appreciated..


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  #114  
Old 10-18-2014, 04:31 PM
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Re: From the horses mouth on the Harman Kardon System

The rears are 6.5" round speakers and the fronts are 6x9 oval speakers. Front and rear have the same tweeter though.


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  #115  
Old 10-18-2014, 05:26 PM
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Re: From the horses mouth on the Harman Kardon System

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Originally Posted by Radknight View Post
The rears are 6.5" round speakers and the fronts are 6x9 oval speakers. Front and rear have the same tweeter though.


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Thank you for the info... This story just gets worst as time passes..smh what's funny is on my receipt it says " speaker was tested and found defective" lol annnnd they ordered the wrong speaker and replaced my perfectly fine speaker and either forgot to reconnect a few things/damaged it/possibly shorted something or fuse issue on something that was working perfectly fine.. Replaced the wrong speaker and tested it and found everything fine and didn't notice the speaker was still blown and all the issues they just did.. They want me to come back to make things right but I don't know how I feel about bringing the car back to someone who messed up on a complete easy job and damaged and touched something that didn't have to be touched..


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  #116  
Old 10-18-2014, 06:50 PM
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Re: From the horses mouth on the Harman Kardon System

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Originally Posted by Kaetone View Post
Thank you for the info... This story just gets worst as time passes..smh what's funny is on my receipt it says " speaker was tested and found defective" lol annnnd they ordered the wrong speaker and replaced my perfectly fine speaker and either forgot to reconnect a few things/damaged it/possibly shorted something or fuse issue on something that was working perfectly fine.. Replaced the wrong speaker and tested it and found everything fine and didn't notice the speaker was still blown and all the issues they just did.. They want me to come back to make things right but I don't know how I feel about bringing the car back to someone who messed up on a complete easy job and damaged and touched something that didn't have to be touched..


People enter your life for 1 of 2 reasons.. Either to be a Blessing or a lesson.
Id take it back to the place that messed it up and make them fix it. hopefully they are more inclined to get it right the second time around and they are more familar with the history of what has been done and what needs done. That is unless you feel there is really a high level of incompetency and they are treating you really bad then definitely go somewhere else. give em one more shot but that's it. They screwed up replacing the speaker in mine when it was manufactured it with the wrong color on the left front side, ordered wrong stuff and had to go back a second time is all good now. remember take advantage of the free rentals that go with the maxcare if you are dropping off. It works more like a loaner program dealer schedules the rental and its there for you at no cost except gas you use, just get the keys. ive used it about a dozen times, getting my money out of it definitely lol. good luck
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  #117  
Old 10-18-2014, 07:19 PM
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Re: From the horses mouth on the Harman Kardon System

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Originally Posted by silvermax04 View Post
Id take it back to the place that messed it up and make them fix it. hopefully they are more inclined to get it right the second time around and they are more familar with the history of what has been done and what needs done. That is unless you feel there is really a high level of incompetency and they are treating you really bad then definitely go somewhere else. give em one more shot but that's it. They screwed up replacing the speaker in mine when it was manufactured it with the wrong color on the left front side, ordered wrong stuff and had to go back a second time is all good now. remember take advantage of the free rentals that go with the maxcare if you are dropping off. It works more like a loaner program dealer schedules the rental and its there for you at no cost except gas you use, just get the keys. ive used it about a dozen times, getting my money out of it definitely lol. good luck

I'm gonna take that advice and give them a chance to make things right..hopefully they'll make everything right.. As far as a loaner I doubt they'll give me it bc it's not one of those things that requires that much time.. But I hate sitting there waiting 3-4 hrs but as always thanks for the input bro


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  #118  
Old 10-18-2014, 07:48 PM
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Re: From the horses mouth on the Harman Kardon System

They screwed up and you have every right to be pissed off. Imagine if you were someone getting paid by the hour. That's money out of your pocket. Let them know you're pissed off. Unfortunately, nowadays people take customers for granted. Perhaps give a feeling of utter disbelief that they *wouldn't* give you a loaner car will do the trick.
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Old 10-18-2014, 08:18 PM
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Re: From the horses mouth on the Harman Kardon System

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Originally Posted by Kaetone View Post
I'm gonna take that advice and give them a chance to make things right..hopefully they'll make everything right.. As far as a loaner I doubt they'll give me it bc it's not one of those things that requires that much time.. But I hate sitting there waiting 3-4 hrs but as always thanks for the input bro


People enter your life for 1 of 2 reasons.. Either to be a Blessing or a lesson.
Since you bought and have maxcare you get a rental car no question there at all. When you call to make the appointment tell them you want the rental and to schedule it. Its the dealers job to take care of getting your rental scheduled all you do is ask for it. Many dealers have them on site and you just drop your car off and rental agent hands you keys and you leave. If they don't they give you shuttle service to get it. doesn't matter how long you have it you are entitled to a rental up to 5 days as part of your maxcare. I have had them everywhere from 3 hours all the way up to 5 days. they are comparable vehicles to what you bring in also not some tiny econo box. Just make sure you say rental as part of your maxcare when you are scheduling your appointment with the dealer and not loaner, jeep does not do loaners as a standard although some delaers may choose to do them on their own. you are entitled to it and it is free, take it! I always do lol don't sit around that dealer for four hours
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  #120  
Old 10-18-2014, 10:07 PM
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Re: From the horses mouth on the Harman Kardon System

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Originally Posted by silvermax04 View Post
Since you bought and have maxcare you get a rental car no question there at all. When you call to make the appointment tell them you want the rental and to schedule it. Its the dealers job to take care of getting your rental scheduled all you do is ask for it. Many dealers have them on site and you just drop your car off and rental agent hands you keys and you leave. If they don't they give you shuttle service to get it. doesn't matter how long you have it you are entitled to a rental up to 5 days as part of your maxcare. I have had them everywhere from 3 hours all the way up to 5 days. they are comparable vehicles to what you bring in also not some tiny econo box. Just make sure you say rental as part of your maxcare when you are scheduling your appointment with the dealer and not loaner, jeep does not do loaners as a standard although some delaers may choose to do them on their own. you are entitled to it and it is free, take it! I always do lol don't sit around that dealer for four hours

Im going to do just that on monday and ill report the outcome.. Thanks again.. To be honest this is my first new car and im not accustomed to rentals. My newest car was a 2004 jeep and man im use to sitting and waiting lol alot haha. Gonna give this a try.. I really need to learn how to be a asshole i feel thats the way to go sometimes lol jk but not really


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