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Old 11-03-2015, 03:47 PM
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One last speaker wiring question...

OK, after much thought and research, and piggy-bank raiding, I ordered the Focal speakers for my 2015 GC. I ordered the 6x9 component set for the front, and the coaxials for the rear.

Here's my question, because I seem to get differing opinions, depending on where I look. I have the standard, factory 6 speaker system, and all I'm going to do is replace the speakers. Therefore, does the factory harness send a "full range" signal to the 6x9s, and then, somehow, branch off that, to feed the tweeters, or are the 6x9s sent a low frequency signal, with the tweeters sent the high frequency signal separately?

Translating that to a GC, do I use the Focal "inline" crossover to feed the tweeters, off the back of the 6x9s, or do I splice a connection for the tweeters from the factory wiring?

TIA!

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Old 11-03-2015, 05:56 PM
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Re: One last speaker wiring question...

not certain about using the crossovers but i have the 9 speaker alpine system and the only thing i regret doing at first was pointing the tweeters in the rear coaxials towards the floor. it was way to bright with them pointing up.
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Old 11-10-2015, 01:11 PM
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Re: One last speaker wiring question...

Update....


I installed the Focal speakers yesterday. Based on the information I found on another site, that showed the GC audio system wiring, as well as a discussion I read on this site, I decided to splice into the factory wiring for the tweeters, and NOT use the Focal inline x-overs.

I know that there's been some discussion that speakers need a little "break-n", but my initial impression of the Focal speakers is positive. Yes, the upper register of the frequency range is "brighter", but not overly so. I currently have the equalizer setting for treble set at +1, the midrange at +3, and the bass at +5.

What I'm thinking that part of the criticism of the Focal tweeters, is that they're much "clearer" than the OE tweeters, so things like cymbal crashes sound far more accurate, and not muted. Their bass response is also good. So as I said, so far, I'm happy.....
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Old 11-10-2015, 01:52 PM
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Re: One last speaker wiring question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by leadfoot4 View Post
Update....


I installed the Focal speakers yesterday. Based on the information I found on another site, that showed the GC audio system wiring, as well as a discussion I read on this site, I decided to splice into the factory wiring for the tweeters, and NOT use the Focal inline x-overs.

I know that there's been some discussion that speakers need a little "break-n", but my initial impression of the Focal speakers is positive. Yes, the upper register of the frequency range is "brighter", but not overly so. I currently have the equalizer setting for treble set at +1, the midrange at +3, and the bass at +5.

What I'm thinking that part of the criticism of the Focal tweeters, is that they're much "clearer" than the OE tweeters, so things like cymbal crashes sound far more accurate, and not muted. Their bass response is also good. So as I said, so far, I'm happy.....
The only issue of splicing in is that you reduce the impedance (ohms) of the speaker load (to the amplifier). That causes the amplifier to potentially over current those channels. The other downfall of splicing is you are sending those tweeters all that low frequency signal (and the same with high to the 6x9's) which is being filtered inherently. I would suggest trying the crossovers. I suspect they are passive but should provide impedance compensation. Doing what you are doing will stress the amp and probably lead to a diminished MTBF. Although the crossovers might suck a little juice, you will have a much more robust system and I suspect, an even crisper spectral response.
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Old 11-10-2015, 02:55 PM
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Re: One last speaker wiring question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by midsouthduckhunter View Post
The only issue of splicing in is that you reduce the impedance (ohms) of the speaker load (to the amplifier). That causes the amplifier to potentially over current those channels. The other downfall of splicing is you are sending those tweeters all that low frequency signal (and the same with high to the 6x9's) which is being filtered inherently. I would suggest trying the crossovers. I suspect they are passive but should provide impedance compensation. Doing what you are doing will stress the amp and probably lead to a diminished MTBF. Although the crossovers might suck a little juice, you will have a much more robust system and I suspect, an even crisper spectral response.


Maybe I wasn't clear, when I said "splicing".....

What I meant, was that there isn't an adapter plug, to allow the Focal tweeters to be a "plug and play", with the OE wiring to the tweeters. Therefore I had to cut the wires from the OE harness, and put male connectors on them, and female connectors on the wires from the tweeters. This allowed me to integrate the Focal tweeters to the OE tweeter wiring.

Since the factory system had tweeters, I highly doubt that the signal they were receiving included the low frequencies that the 6x9 mid-bass speaker sees, therefore, I highly doubt I'll have any issues by essentially using the factory wiring.....
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Old 11-12-2015, 08:15 AM
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Re: One last speaker wiring question...

One More Thing....


I've noticed some discussion, on this site, about the impedance of the OE speakers. I checked the speakers that I removed from my Jeep (base 6 speaker set-up) and found that the tweeters measured 5 ohms, and the rest of them checked in at 4 ohms....
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Old 11-13-2015, 05:42 PM
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Re: One last speaker wiring question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by leadfoot4 View Post
Maybe I wasn't clear, when I said "splicing".....

What I meant, was that there isn't an adapter plug, to allow the Focal tweeters to be a "plug and play", with the OE wiring to the tweeters. Therefore I had to cut the wires from the OE harness, and put male connectors on them, and female connectors on the wires from the tweeters. This allowed me to integrate the Focal tweeters to the OE tweeter wiring.

Since the factory system had tweeters, I highly doubt that the signal they were receiving included the low frequencies that the 6x9 mid-bass speaker sees, therefore, I highly doubt I'll have any issues by essentially using the factory wiring.....
Yeah, I misunderstood you; ignore everything I said. Nice to hear upgrading the speakers makes a significant difference.
In regards to the speaker impedance's, it would be a way for the speaker mfg to derate it to handle the power from the amp or match the amp output impedance. Speaker ratings are nominal so that is why the Focal's are rated for 4 ohms.

If you have a capacitance and/or inductance button on your DMM, measure it and calculate the impedance.
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Old 04-26-2016, 05:38 PM
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Re: One last speaker wiring question...

It's been a few months, since this discussion was last "live", and I've come across some new information.

I recently received a couple of questions from a potential Focal purchaser, through the Crutchfield website, and in answering those questions, it got me thinking about how I initially wired in my Focal components.

I'll start by saying that the Focal instructions are vague, at best. For what these speakers cost, I expect a little more detail with regard to the need for, and installation of, their "passive", in-line crossovers. There are 2 of these for each pair of speakers, one for the mid-woofer and one for the tweeter.

First, I initially wired the speakers as mentioned in a previous post. However, last week, I went back and took a second look at the factory tweeter, and that second look showed that a resistor is part of the tweeter. OK, that indicates a full range signal going to the tweeter wiring plug, and the resistor acting as a crossover. Secondly, the Crutchfield said that both factory plugs are getting a full range signal.

Having seen/heard that, I went out to the garage today, and installed both of the Focal inline crossovers in my GC. I'll have to take a little more time, and listen to some more music, but I have to say that the changes in sound are minimal. Surprisingly, the tweeters seem to be a little less "bright", and the bass a tad clearer, but it isn't a night and day difference.

Hopefully, however, the speakers are happier with the segregated frequencies.....
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Old 05-04-2016, 12:59 AM
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Re: One last speaker wiring question...

Lead foot,
Speakers sounding less bright is probably due to some power being used/dissipated by the new crossovers. If they sounded good before, leave it alone but you can see if you still like it. What do your friend/spouse think? Getting someone else for that kind of stuff always help steer me better.
If the resistor used on the OEM speaker is across the speaker terminals then that is (most likely) for impedance matching. If it was only connected to one terminal, then that is probably used in an RL/Cpassive crossover circuit.
In regards to the expensive speakers, they might figure if you are spending big bucks then you must know what you're doing. . Good stuff, keep it coming.
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Old 05-05-2016, 07:24 AM
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Re: One last speaker wiring question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by midsouthduckhunter View Post
Lead foot,
Speakers sounding less bright is probably due to some power being used/dissipated by the new crossovers. If they sounded good before, leave it alone but you can see if you still like it. What do your friend/spouse think? Getting someone else for that kind of stuff always help steer me better.
If the resistor used on the OEM speaker is across the speaker terminals then that is (most likely) for impedance matching. If it was only connected to one terminal, then that is probably used in an RL/Cpassive crossover circuit.
In regards to the expensive speakers, they might figure if you are spending big bucks then you must know what you're doing. . Good stuff, keep it coming.

After I installed the Focal inline x-overs, I didn't have too much time to really listen to any music, on that day. The following day, I was running errands, and therefore was able to give things a better listen.

I think that the installation of the x-overs made more of a difference than I initially realized. The sound is noticeably better. The highs aren't as bright, as I previously mentioned, but the bass seems deeper too, although it's hard to quantify. I got a 12 month subscription to Sirius XM, as part of the Jeep purchase, and then decided to renew it for another 12 months. While I enjoy their format, I listen to a lot of the classic rock, and I think that Sirius' sound quality can only be as good as their sources. What I mean is that so much of the 60s and 70s music has been "remastered" over and over, so that the sound level is all over the place.

One song has the tweeters screaming at you, while another song is hardly audible. The next song has the bass shaking the vehicle, and the next song is as flat as a countertop. I don't hear these differences at home, playing the CDs on my home stereo. Anyway, I'm happy with my decision to install the x-overs.

With regard to the OE tweeters, the resistor is only on one side on the signal input. With respect to my wife/co-pilot, as lovely a person as she is, she's not a good judge of audio quality. As long as the radio is loud, that's all she cares about..........
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Old 05-05-2016, 11:13 AM
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Re: One last speaker wiring question...

I am looking at upgrading my base 6 speaker system as well, I honestly have to say it does sound pretty good for a base system and I really dont notice much of a difference between the base 6 and the Alpine 9 speaker. However, I know the paper cones will degrade over time so might as well just swap them out now and enjoy some better sound.

Looking at the Focals as well, but I have never been a fan of bright tweeters so I am leaning more towards a new set of Infinity REF component speakers that have a soft dome tweeter. They are also 3 OHM speakers so they should see higher power rating from the HU over a 4 OHM impedance correct, assuming the HU can handle the additional current draw? (its been over 10 years since my last EE class).

Since you guys have spent some time behind the panel is there enough room to mount a reasonable size component passive crossover (5"x3"x.8") since they don't come with inline crossovers. Thought it would be nice to have an actual crossover since it will allow for db gains/loss on the tweeter to help match output.

Also, since the crossovers have only 1 set of inputs for each component set of the woofer and tweeter, where does the tweeter branch off of the input line to the door? Wondering if that happens at the HU (2 speaker sets for the door) or at some point within the door (based of what I saw on WK2jeep wire diagram it looks like it does branch off). My plan here would be to capture the single + and - lead to the door before it splits to the tweeter. Although I assume if I can then if I wire both the tweeter lead and the woofer leads together into the single input then same net effect correct?
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Old 05-05-2016, 05:44 PM
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Re: One last speaker wiring question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jprieur View Post
.....Since you guys have spent some time behind the panel is there enough room to mount a reasonable size component passive crossover (5"x3"x.8") since they don't come with inline crossovers. Thought it would be nice to have an actual crossover since it will allow for db gains/loss on the tweeter to help match output.

Also, since the crossovers have only 1 set of inputs for each component set of the woofer and tweeter, where does the tweeter branch off of the input line to the door? Wondering if that happens at the HU (2 speaker sets for the door) or at some point within the door (based of what I saw on WK2jeep wire diagram it looks like it does branch off). My plan here would be to capture the single + and - lead to the door before it splits to the tweeter. Although I assume if I can then if I wire both the tweeter lead and the woofer leads together into the single input then same net effect correct?

In my case, I didn't go into the dashboard. I worked strictly with the wiring at the door. As I've mentioned previously, I'm working with a 2015 Jeep GC, with a Maxcare lifetime warranty, and I don't want to do anything to jeopardize the warranty.

While my personal experience with aftermarket stereos goes back to the early 1980s, my experience with component speaker pairs is limited to this Focal set. Having said that, my understanding of active x-overs is that a full-range signal is fed to it, whereupon it then segregates the upper range signal and transmits it to the tweeters, and the lower range signal to the woofers. I've also read that the x-over needs to be rigidly mounted, preferably within the cabin of the vehicle.

The GC has separate wiring in the doors for the woofers and tweeters. So, I'm thinking that in order to use an active x-over, you'd need to verify that the HU is sending 4 full range signals out, 2 for the front doors and 2 for the rear doors. Then intercept the speaker feed in the cabin, and cut the wiring, before it goes to the doors, and hook it to the active x-over. Then you'd have to send new wiring out to the doors.


Having said all of that, I decided to take the easier way out, and stick with the wiring that the Jeep already had in the doors. As I said, I skipped over the Focal x-overs, initially, thinking the HU was performing this task. Once I found it wasn't, I installed the x-overs, and was impressed with the difference in sound.
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