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  #13  
Old 12-30-2010, 10:44 AM
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Re: UPDATE...2011 Nav. Systems

GlowingGhoul, Do you own a Jeep? What year? How many Chrysler products have you ownd?
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Old 12-30-2010, 10:48 AM
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Re: UPDATE...2011 Nav. Systems

GlowingGhoul, I appreciate your technical feedback. Do you have an opinion on the much discussed 730N RHR unit ? How is compares to the 730N RER and 420N Garmin?
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Old 12-30-2010, 10:49 AM
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Re: UPDATE...2011 Nav. Systems

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Originally Posted by CapecodJeep View Post
GlowingGhoul, Do you own a Jeep? What year? How many Chrysler products have you ownd?
This is my forth Jeep. I have a second Overland on order (making it my fifth, look at the tracking page). I use the 430N in a Dodge truck at work.

Garmin's interface is nice, but beyond that, it's a decent, but inferior Nav unit in every other way.
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Old 12-30-2010, 10:49 AM
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Re: UPDATE...2011 Nav. Systems

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Originally Posted by GlowingGhoul View Post
Speed sensor input is used to improve accuracy in both units, but the Harman has accelerometers which are more accurate than speed sensors alone for distance and electronic gyro's to detect yaw.

You can drive for miles in city canyons with the 730 RER and not lose Nav. Most mainstream head units cannot maintain pinpoint accuracy for very long periods with a complete loss of the Sat signal. I drive extensively in and around NYC and the 730 never, ever, lost it's bearing for a second, even being able to distinguish between closely placed, narrow streets blocked by bridges above and buildings to the sides.

My very first factory navigation system was in a 2001 Acura. It used speed sensors and gyros for dead reckoning and it worked really well. I remember driving through the Lincoln Tunnel (which is about 1.5 miles long) and losing the satellite signal about 50 feet into the tunnel. The navigation system still tracked my vehicle perfectly, right up to the exit of the tunnel. The vehicle icon was in perfect position as I exited the tunnel and satellite signal was restored.

Since then, every single factory in-dash navigation system I've had has had the same capability. I'm shocked that anyone would even offer an in-dash system that doesn't have that kind of capability.
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Old 12-30-2010, 10:52 AM
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Re: UPDATE...2011 Nav. Systems

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Originally Posted by CapecodJeep View Post
GlowingGhoul, I appreciate your technical feedback. Do you have an opinion on the much discussed 730N RHR unit ? How is compares to the 730N RER and 420N Garmin?
Yes, I'd take the RHR in a heartbeat and it's the only reason I'm not bitching about my delivery being a month late, since I'm hoping they'll throw it in. It's got all the advantages of the RER with a slicker interface and new features.

I was pleasently surprised when I got the free upgrade to the 730N RER in my first Overland since they would only let me order the 430n back in October.
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Old 12-30-2010, 10:55 AM
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Re: UPDATE...2011 Nav. Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapecodJeep View Post
GlowingGhoul, I appreciate your technical feedback. Do you have an opinion on the much discussed 730N RHR unit ? How is compares to the 730N RER and 420N Garmin?
The RHR isn't a complete overhaul of the system. It essentially brings the features of the 730N RER and 430N RHB into better harmony. Right not, the 430N RHB has some features the RER does not (voice command of music, ability to play files directly off a USB drive in the armrest, Sirius Travel Link, music streaming over Bluetooth, hands free SMS). The RHR will add those features in addition to the features the RER has over the 430N RHB (voice command of nav, split screen music/nav, dead reckoning, and Sirius Traffic... presumably the RER's iPod cable in the lower dash console will be going away).

I ordered a vehicle with the 430N, anticipating the Garmin unit to be better at navigating. The vehicle I ended up buying (long story) has the 730N RER. I am happy with the 730N, but I suspect I'd also have been happy with the 430N. Personally, I would recommend that whichever you have, be happy with it. I wouldn't go swapping a 730N RER for the 430N RHB. I don't know I'd pay more for the RER over the RHB; I might not even pay more for a RHR over the RHB if we were to order another Grand Cherokee. If I did, it would be mainly to gain the split screen capability and voice nav command.

The actual usability differences between the units are less than you'd think, and I'd recommend trying out the RER before making a big stink. It isn't as simple as swapping one out for the other. The RER has a lower front console iPod cable; the RHB has a USB port in the armrest; before you go insisting on a swap, I'd want to be real sure I wouldn't lose both of them.
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Old 12-30-2010, 10:58 AM
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Re: UPDATE...2011 Nav. Systems

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Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
My very first factory navigation system was in a 2001 Acura. It used speed sensors and gyros for dead reckoning and it worked really well. I remember driving through the Lincoln Tunnel (which is about 1.5 miles long) and losing the satellite signal about 50 feet into the tunnel. The navigation system still tracked my vehicle perfectly, right up to the exit of the tunnel. The vehicle icon was in perfect position as I exited the tunnel and satellite signal was restored.

Since then, every single factory in-dash navigation system I've had has had the same capability. I'm shocked that anyone would even offer an in-dash system that doesn't have that kind of capability.
All units at least have some limited dead reckoning capability, but I've used many of these systems over the years (I used laptop based Nav in cars before in car navigation was ever offered on any vehicle) and 1.5 miles in a tunnel is no test of DR accuracy. Try driving around the Bronx on a route requiring many sharp turns and you'll see just how poorly most Nav systems perform in those circumstances.

Gyro / accerometer dead reckoning is not new, but carries a significant hardware cost. In 2001, the Acura's system was over $2000 and did have a "snap to map" type DR. You won't find Gyro's on most cars under $35k unless there is a "premium" nav option.
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Old 12-30-2010, 12:05 PM
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Re: UPDATE...2011 Nav. Systems

WOW.....excellent feedback..!! I am curious as to how Chrysler will respond to the issue regarding, what was ordered, what is on the MSRP, and what the vehicle was delivered with. Honestly, they should do a better job communicating at the dealer/customer level. Bear's repeating, the 730N RER is the same unit that was in my 2008 Overland. For 2011, I expect enhanced, newer technology. That said, I will not swap out, before knowing all the facts. STAY TUNED.
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Old 12-30-2010, 12:13 PM
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Re: UPDATE...2011 Nav. Systems

By the way, just FYI, when the 730n RER was available for ordering, it cost $305.00 more to get that unit than the 430n.
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Old 12-30-2010, 01:13 PM
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Re: UPDATE...2011 Nav. Systems

I have the 430N listed on my online sticker.....but I honesty don't know what it's going to show up with next week. I like them both, don't really care either way.
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Old 12-30-2010, 04:39 PM
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Re: UPDATE...2011 Nav. Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlowingGhoul View Post
All units at least have some limited dead reckoning capability, but I've used many of these systems over the years (I used laptop based Nav in cars before in car navigation was ever offered on any vehicle) and 1.5 miles in a tunnel is no test of DR accuracy. Try driving around the Bronx on a route requiring many sharp turns and you'll see just how poorly most Nav systems perform in those circumstances.

Gyro / accerometer dead reckoning is not new, but carries a significant hardware cost. In 2001, the Acura's system was over $2000 and did have a "snap to map" type DR. You won't find Gyro's on most cars under $35k unless there is a "premium" nav option.

I've driven countless miles through the Bronx, Manhattan, and Queens with the OEM navigation system in my 4Runner. I've never seen it stumble or show my location incorrectly, despite interference from buildings. The nav system relies much more on dead reckoning than it does satellite signals. In fact, it only "checks" my vehicle's actual location ocassionally with the satellite signal, which is not the case with aftermarket units that rely 100% on satellites to determine/track position.

All I'm saying is that I'm used to in-dash systems that barely even need a satellite signal to function properly. In NYC, this is much more important than it is out in the country.
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Old 12-30-2010, 08:14 PM
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Re: UPDATE...2011 Nav. Systems

My wife has the 730N RER system in her Company car (2008 Dodge Magnum) and I have had OEM in-dash navigation in the two cars I’ve owned since 2003, and an aftermarket in-dash navigation system in my F-150 plus two dash top units for vacation and business travel. And I can say without question that the 730N RER was the worst of all the nav systems we have had. I don’t really care about gyros and accelerometers; what I do care about is the Navigation system plotting the best and most correct route based on how I have it set up (fastest or shortest route). And my wife and I are always amazed at how often the 730N RER gave us the dumbest route. We almost always look at each other and ask; why in the #$%& is it taking us that way? Also, I could never understand why it would almost never show the names of the surrounding streets. I had an in-dash Pioneer navigation system in my F-150 that would show the name of every street on the screen, so you could use it as if it were really a map (duh). You’re not always trying to find a particular address or POI you might just want to get to a street that you know. I could look at the screen and find my way to the street or intersection I needed. Just seeing a bunch of lines on the 730N screen tells you nothing. Since getting our GC with the 430N we have found it to always give us the best most common sense route from point “A” to point “B”. It doesn’t show enough street names for me, but does show more that the 730N RER ever did. And having the 430N show us what lane to get into when out of town on a busy freeway is priceless. So unless Harman has improved the “navigation” in the new 730N RNR I’m much happier with the 430N and Garmin Navigation.
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