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  #61  
Old 06-22-2013, 01:59 PM
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Re: Updated New Pictures! Stealthbox/Audio Control Installed thus far

Why are people tapping into the hi level signal after the amp or am I reading this wrong? Tap into the front channel before the amp for a full signal.
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  #62  
Old 06-22-2013, 04:03 PM
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Because in systems that have the factory amp, the factory headunit sends the signal to the amp over the CAN bus digitally, so you must get the signal after the amp.

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  #63  
Old 06-22-2013, 04:18 PM
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Yep what ^ he said can bus


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  #64  
Old 06-22-2013, 04:18 PM
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Re: Updated New Pictures! Stealthbox/Audio Control Installed thus far

It must be on 2014's, not that way on the earlier models from what I'm seeing from the wire schematic.
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  #65  
Old 06-22-2013, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sswails View Post
It must be on 2014's, not that way on the earlier models from what I'm seeing from the wire schematic.
It works that way on all Grand Cherokees 2008 plus when they switched to the first RER MyGig even on the low speed CAN bus.

Just because the wires look like they are there in the schematic, doesn't mean they have an audio signal on them.

On the slow speed RER units, if you disconnected the factory amplifier and pulled the accessory fuse, the next time the RER unit turned on and didn't detect the amplifier, it would then use high level outputs.

I've heard, but have not verified the high speed RER/RHR units determine whether to use high level outputs or the CAN bus based on how the jeep is programmed, not on whether it detects the amp or not. Presumably this could be changed with the STAR system or something? Like I said, I have not verified this is how the high speed units work, but I'd imagine they do.

PAC makes an Add an Amp adapter that gives a full range RCA output from the digital CAN bus signal, but it also has its own issues. Only left and right with no fader control (some people have complained they are only getting mono), the factory EQ doesn't work with it, and the big one - nav volume doesn't work with it.

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  #66  
Old 06-22-2013, 05:06 PM
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Re: Updated New Pictures! Stealthbox/Audio Control Installed thus far

What I don't understand, if it was truly digital, it would be either optical or coaxial. I'm old school so I'm trying to wrap my head around this. Has anyone tried tapping before the amp? I have always been taught to never grab an already amp'd signal to only amp it again as this causes distortion levels to change. The head unit is just that, a basic head unit with no optical or coaxial wiring. Logically, I don't understand why you couldn't tap either at the head unit, before the CAN or at the amp, before being amplified.

When I think digital, I think 1's and 0's.
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  #67  
Old 06-22-2013, 05:27 PM
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Re: Updated New Pictures! Stealthbox/Audio Control Installed thus far

Well...if I'm understanding this correctly, you would use a 3sixty.3, BitOne or PS8. Use the 8 channel inputs, let the device sum, de-equalize, reconstruct and send the proper analog signals to your amp. Just doesn't seem right. May have to play with it. I guess doing it that way, all you would need is the tweeter and mid signal. The device will reconstruct all missing frequencies. Hmm

I've used the BitOne multiple times....very familiar with it.
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  #68  
Old 06-22-2013, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sswails View Post
Well...if I'm understanding this correctly, you would use a 3sixty.3, BitOne or PS8. Use the 8 channel inputs, let the device sum, de-equalize, reconstruct and send the proper analog signals to your amp. Just doesn't seem right. May have to play with it. I guess doing it that way, all you would need is the tweeter and mid signal. The device will reconstruct all missing frequencies. Hmm

I've used the BitOne multiple times....very familiar with it.
Yeah man I hear yeah it took me a lot of researching to wrap my head around this new stuff as well. I'm still not sure... is making me rethink doing it myself I have no prior experience with sound processing. I'm thinking about just leaving the center channel hooked to factory amp and Just using something like the arc sri or a audiocontrol. Hell I've found only one stereo shop here in the bay area that I have confidence in that could hook my system up properly. Most of the shops here dont even have oscilloscopes or any clue. I'd like to go with a sound Processor but whatever I'll figure it out. Maybe I'll just get my system installed when I'm in socal

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  #69  
Old 06-22-2013, 08:22 PM
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Re: Updated New Pictures! Stealthbox/Audio Control Installed thus far

The issue I see with using the factory amps output signal is not only are you amplifying an already amplified signal, you are adding in the processing in the DSP section of the factory amp. Once you upgrade to quality speakers, it all changes. I need to have 31 band parametric EQ, just to get it right after all that crap. You're going to have so many peaks and dips...not to mention amplifying any issues with factory amp such as NOISE....it would be insane. TIme alignment would be off and you may even have to do some phase shifting. I guess most people don't care, but if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it right.
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:07 PM
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Re: Updated New Pictures! Stealthbox/Audio Control Installed thus far

Quote:
Originally Posted by sswails View Post
What I don't understand, if it was truly digital, it would be either optical or coaxial. .
This isn't true - optical and coaxial are just transport mechanisms to carry a digital signal - they are rated at mbps the same way a network connection is, based on how many bits (1's and 0's) they can move per second. (I realize there are standards that run on top of them such as S/PDIF) Digital audio doesn't have to be transferred over any specific transport. Think iTunes, YouTube, Pandora, other streaming audio services, or just a plain MP3 file. All examples of digital audio that have nothing to do with Coaxial or Optical. The CAN Bus is just a in vehicle network that things can communicate on.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sswails View Post
I'm old school so I'm trying to wrap my head around this. Has anyone tried tapping before the amp?
I tried in my 2008 with the MyGiG RER and as I noted earlier - if the MyGig detected an Amp on the CAN Bus, it did not provide and analog signal on the head unit outputs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sswails View Post
I have always been taught to never grab an already amp'd signal to only amp it again as this causes distortion levels to change. The head unit is just that, a basic head unit with no optical or coaxial wiring. Logically, I don't understand why you couldn't tap either at the head unit, before the CAN or at the amp, before being amplified.

When I think digital, I think 1's and 0's.
Even if you could grab a signal from the back of the MyGiG on it's speaker outputs, it would already be an amplified signal - it's not like it would be providing a low level, low noise, low distortion output. Since the factory amplifier does not take an amplified signal from the head unit (it takes the digital one), it still has only been amplified one time, and whose to say whether the factory amplifier has lower noise, THD, etc than the MyGig unit has? I'd imagine they are both using low quaility MOSFET amplifiers

---------- Post added at 11:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by sswails View Post
Well...if I'm understanding this correctly, you would use a 3sixty.3, BitOne or PS8. Use the 8 channel inputs, let the device sum, de-equalize, reconstruct and send the proper analog signals to your amp. Just doesn't seem right. May have to play with it. I guess doing it that way, all you would need is the tweeter and mid signal. The device will reconstruct all missing frequencies. Hmm

I've used the BitOne multiple times....very familiar with it.
I wouldn't call them missing frequencies - they are separated frequencies from the factory amplifier with crossovers already applied. They are definitely equalized within the bands that each channel has. For example the center channel has it's high end raised quite a bit to make up for the fact that it doesn't have a tweeter.


I would take caution in summing the channels together without a device that does time alignment correction before summing (the JBL MS-8 is the only one I know that does this). Using the 3Sixty.3 and summing the door and tweeters, there was enough factory time alignment between the two, and just the right level on each channel that there was almost a perfect cancellation of frequencies at 2.6kHz. See this thread:

Factory Frequency Response

Since I am running active, I actually am not summing the channels at all, just passing through the tweeter and door channels through the 3Sixty.3 where I can deequalize each of the channels independently. It sounds much better than when I tried summing them with the weird phase issues it introduced.
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  #71  
Old 06-24-2013, 10:09 PM
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Re: Updated New Pictures! Stealthbox/Audio Control Installed thus far

I'm going to have to play with it to figure it out. Grabbing it after the amp creates too many issues. New to this digital stuff. I will do a distortion test and I will check output signal at headunit. Just need the time. Need to figure out where it clips after the amp if that is the only option.
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  #72  
Old 06-24-2013, 10:12 PM
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Re: Updated New Pictures! Stealthbox/Audio Control Installed thus far

I'm figuring with 8 inputs..should be able to run the tweets, mids and sub channel for full bandwidth. Just need to play with it.
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