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  #13  
Old 02-07-2011, 02:02 PM
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Re: 2012 North American Diesel?

A few years ago we had a week's vacation in Germany. Our rental was a diesel VW Passat. What an eye opener! The car was fun to drive, plenty of pull off the line, negligible clatter. Totally changed how I felt about diesels.

If the W2K had one as an option, I would have seriously considered it. Of course I would need to feel that Chryco had put out a comparable engine to what VW (or BMW now) does, and I understand there is some question about that.
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Old 02-07-2011, 02:03 PM
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Re: 2012 North American Diesel?

I would loooove to see a diesel in the WK2....I've driven the Touareg and it was amazing, great torque and the mpg was impressive for such a heavy truck. If there was education and promotion done about diesel, people can be swayed. Just takes time.
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Old 02-07-2011, 02:32 PM
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Re: 2012 North American Diesel?

http://www.donlen.com/production-trucks-chrysler.aspx

Look at GC... Anyone know anything about that???
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  #16  
Old 02-07-2011, 03:04 PM
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Re: 2012 North American Diesel?

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Originally Posted by funkatation View Post
Look at GC... Anyone know anything about that???
3.0L for export models.
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  #17  
Old 02-07-2011, 03:30 PM
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Re: 2012 North American Diesel?

In Europe most vehicles are diesel because the tax is slightly lower than on gasoline. Here, the Federal tax on diesel is higher because it is presumed to be for commercial trucking.

The government isn't about to lower any energy tax, and there would be a public howl if the gasoline tax were raised to parity with diesel. So...
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  #18  
Old 02-07-2011, 03:49 PM
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Re: 2012 North American Diesel?

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Originally Posted by Lingohocken View Post
In Europe most vehicles are diesel because the tax is slightly lower than on gasoline. Here, the Federal tax on diesel is higher because it is presumed to be for commercial trucking.

The government isn't about to lower any energy tax, and there would be a public howl if the gasoline tax were raised to parity with diesel. So...
There's also major demand and production differences. Because Europe uses more diesel, their refineries are set up to favor diesel on the output side. Ours are the opposite- favoring gasoline because we use more of that. Changing that mix isn't as easy as changing a couple settings in a computer, you're basically building a new refinery. The US and Europe also send each other unnecessary fuel; we export some diesel to them, they send some gasoline to us.

All that factors in to the price as well.

Right now, the lowest prices for regular fuel and diesel (according to gasbuddy.com) near me are $2.90 and $3.31, respectively. 40 cents/gallon is not insignificant, and represents about a 14% price increase in the fuel. Keep in mind that diesel is also harder to find than gasoline in your neighborhood gas stations (around here, maybe one in five carries diesel... if that many).

It isn't any one thing, but the multiplicity of factors. I think the consumer has pretty well forgotten the diesel cars of the late 70s/early 80s (a large number of car buyers don't remember them at all- we were too young), and 30 years is a long time for auto development. Modern diesels (like the VW TDI) have pretty well established it as a legit fuel source. It isn't bad memories, it's more the economics and convenience aspects.
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Old 02-07-2011, 05:52 PM
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Re: 2012 NA Diesel?

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Originally Posted by Technosavant View Post
Because in pickup trucks they give something you can't really get with gasoline- stump pulling amounts of sheer torque. Emissions rules for large pickup trucks are also different from passenger cars and SUVs too.

As ultra low sulfur diesel becomes more predominant in the US, we may see more diesels, but the fuel itself is more expensive (to say nothing of purchase and maintenance costs on a diesel), so there just isn't the same market.

I don't deny that the low end torque of a diesel would be nice, I just don't think the payoff would be worth it over the Hemi- you'd be taking a much more expensive engine that costs a lot more to feed (sure, it will go longer on a tank, but if you get 30% better mileage and the fuel is 30% more expensive, you never make back that difference). If you need the power for towing or other heavy work, that's one thing. But for a vehicle like the WK2, there's just not much point to it.

A diesel WK2, in my opinion, is highly unlikely to be put into production in the US for many reasons. The extra cost associated with getting diesels 50 state emission compliant is very prohibitive. A diesel engine/tranny combo in today's 3/4 and 1 ton trucks are usually bought at around an $8,000 option. So figure at least $5,000 or more for a smaller diesel/tranny combo in a WK2. Not to mention any mpg savings over a gasser is offset by the higher price of diesel fuel in comparison to Regular grade or even Mid-grade gasoline.

The solution for unavailability of a diesel WK2 in the US is to twin-turbo a V6 engine. A twin-turbo V6 would provide a cost efficient solution to providing an engine that would get loads of low-end torque while at the same time being fuel efficient, cheap to produce, and provide more hp/tq than the Hemi at any altitude.


My wish for a future WK2 powertrain:

3.6 TT DI V6 with 385hp @ 5000 rpm / 425tq @ 2400 rpm mated to the new 8-speed ZF tranny

17 city / 25 hwy MPG


Hey, if Ford can do it with their new 3.5L V6 Ecoboost in the F-150 truck, then Chrysler/Jeep can sure as hell do it in the WK2
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  #20  
Old 02-07-2011, 05:55 PM
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Re: 2012 North American Diesel?

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3.0L for export models.
Is that the new diesel engine?
Any idea if it will become available in North America any time soon?
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  #21  
Old 02-07-2011, 06:02 PM
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Re: 2012 NA Diesel?

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There was really no logical reason to take the CRD...its real world mileage wasn't much better than the Hemis and it was a bit of a dog. But times have changed and the diesels that VW and BMW are putting out currently are incredible.

I still don't think we will get one, at least not anytime soon, mostly because I think it will be very difficult for chrysler beancounters to come up with a buisiness case for one, especially when the car is already selling well. Maybe if gas prices spike significantly, or a key competitor offers a diesel that sells well.
I was scanning this thread, just taking it in, but couldn't let this one by.... I need to issue it with a BULLSHIT tag! lol

Fact is, the deisel WK used about HALF the fuel in similar conditions to what the Hemi does. My neighbour had them while I had the Hemi.
The diesel isn't as "sporty" to drive as the Hemi, but it sure does have nice torque.

the WK2 is expected to be released in April or May with a new generation Diesel, with input from Caterpillar! That timeframe is predicted for Australia, and as far as I can tell, Euro markets too.

I await keenly to drive one, as I have high hopes that it will be a "good thing", and could well be my next purchase, as it could offer a good blend of speed and economy, with especially good towing ability

Interesting question..... would one bet against the new gen diesel being the first to offer a NEW transmission?
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Old 02-07-2011, 07:01 PM
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Re: 2012 North American Diesel?

Um, the 3.0 CRD was rated at 20/27 EPA, but I've never seen a review where they got better than 18 combined.

The CRD was a 3,000 dollar option over the 5.7 V8 which usually averages in the 12-13 range. With diesel being consistently more expensive than even premium gas here it would take a long time to recoup that investment.

376lb-ft of torque is nice, but the hemi made 375...so not much difference really.

I just don't think 5-6 mpg combined for 3k made it a worthwhile choice.

Don't get me wrong, I love a good diesel, but that Benz unit in the previous gen wasn't a good engine.
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  #23  
Old 02-07-2011, 07:10 PM
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Re: 2012 North American Diesel?

Evidently the pricing structure here in Australia differs vastly from the US. As does the cost of diesel. Whilst more expensive that regular petrol, diesel is usually on par with premium "gas" petrol.

The diesel came at the same cost as 5.7 Hemi for us, ie, no cost option. The Australian popularity runs at about 95% diesels in all WK's here!
For the past few years we have also been receiving high quality low-sulphur diesel to align us with Europe and allow the sale of these high-tech diesels.

real world figures (town driving) between my neighbour and I were about 21l/100klm for me, and around 10.5l/100klm for him. Admittedly, mine does have horribly heavy wheels and shorter trips on average, so lets call 18l/100 more realistic. Regardless, still a mammoth saving.

The 3.0L diesel was also proven quicker/faster than the 4.7 V8 (at least in the first series prior to the big upgrade to 4.7).
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  #24  
Old 02-07-2011, 08:19 PM
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Re: 2012 North American Diesel?

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Evidently the pricing structure here in Australia differs vastly from the US. As does the cost of diesel.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if that were the case.

Keep in mind that in the WK, the CRD in the US required the Overland (I don't think it was available on the Limited, but it may have been). That meant you had a VERY expensive SUV, and that's before you added the diesel. It wasn't quite like the WK2, where the interior is good enough to justify the price; you couldn't really make that claim with the previous generation.

Hence, the take rate for that engine in the US was incredibly low. I don't think I've ever seen a CRD WK; I occasionally see a CRD Liberty, and I can count the number of Overland WKs and Commanders I've seen on my fingers after getting careless with the lawn mower. They just weren't that popular.
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