Go Back   Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum > Jeep Platform Discussion > Grand Cherokee - WK2 - > Diesel Powered 2012+ Export Grand Cherokee

Join Jeep Garage Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
  #301  
Old 08-08-2013, 08:35 PM
ExcursionDiesel's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: W. TN.
Posts: 1,542
Thanks: 4
Thanked 219 Times in 147 Posts
Rep Power: 2907
ExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond repute
Overfueling = unburned fuel = smoke. Not destructive, just nasty. It may clog up the EGR over time, as stated. The "big power" diesel guys let it smoke since it takes fuel to make power and the smoke clears up once boost arrives.

bd
__________________

__________________
----------------------
The founder of JeepGarage.org, Scottina06, has a son Max who is in need of corrective surgery from an infection at birth that left one leg 4 inches short. We need to support our Jeep brothers. His family has started a fund on giveforward.com. If you have ever been helped by someone else, now is a good time to pay it forward. Here is a link to that page. God bless you! http://gfwd.at/1rz33PW
Reply With Quote
  #302  
Old 08-08-2013, 08:46 PM
yoda42's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2011 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Darwin Australia
Posts: 358
Thanks: 0
Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 1648
yoda42 has a reputation beyond reputeyoda42 has a reputation beyond reputeyoda42 has a reputation beyond reputeyoda42 has a reputation beyond reputeyoda42 has a reputation beyond reputeyoda42 has a reputation beyond reputeyoda42 has a reputation beyond reputeyoda42 has a reputation beyond reputeyoda42 has a reputation beyond reputeyoda42 has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExcursionDiesel View Post
Overfueling = unburned fuel = smoke. Not destructive, just nasty. It may clog up the EGR over time, as stated. The "big power" diesel guys let it smoke since it takes fuel to make power and the smoke clears up once boost arrives.

bd
All the info I have read has said the over fuelling a diesel causes excessive engine temps, and can cause big problems, with petrol engines over fuelling cause no problems but smoke, with diesels over fuelling can be fatal for the engine
__________________

__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo CRD & Aussieswag Rover LX Campertrailer
www.travelswithbeagles.blogspot.com
Reply With Quote
  #303  
Old 08-08-2013, 09:25 PM
ExcursionDiesel's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: W. TN.
Posts: 1,542
Thanks: 4
Thanked 219 Times in 147 Posts
Rep Power: 2907
ExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond repute
Yoda,

Excessive EGT is caused by overfueling, no doubt. But this generally occurs when towing where the engine can't gain RPMs and pump the heat out. Under short hard acceleration, like you experience in daily driving and even drag racing, EGTs are generally not a concern. Long term high EGTs can cook the turbo and pistons, heads and valve train.

One should NEVER tow heavy with a performance setting...EVER. Changing back to stock or tow tuning is important.

The good news with aluminum heads is that EGTs are generally slightly lower due to the thermal conductivity of aluminum. The bad news is that the heads can warp, blowing a head gasket, IF prolonged high EGTs are present. Don't tow heavy or pull long steep hills in 8th gear in performance settings.

A wise man would install a pyrometer with the sensor as close to the manifold as possible and watch their EGTs.

bd
__________________
----------------------
The founder of JeepGarage.org, Scottina06, has a son Max who is in need of corrective surgery from an infection at birth that left one leg 4 inches short. We need to support our Jeep brothers. His family has started a fund on giveforward.com. If you have ever been helped by someone else, now is a good time to pay it forward. Here is a link to that page. God bless you! http://gfwd.at/1rz33PW
Reply With Quote
  #304  
Old 08-08-2013, 09:44 PM
Radknight's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 6.4L WK2
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 376
Thanks: 7
Thanked 28 Times in 26 Posts
Rep Power: 1616
Radknight has a reputation beyond reputeRadknight has a reputation beyond reputeRadknight has a reputation beyond reputeRadknight has a reputation beyond reputeRadknight has a reputation beyond reputeRadknight has a reputation beyond reputeRadknight has a reputation beyond reputeRadknight has a reputation beyond reputeRadknight has a reputation beyond reputeRadknight has a reputation beyond reputeRadknight has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anyone tuned a CRD yet?

Great thread guys with heaps of good info. I've been um and ahh'ing between the 2014 GC Hemi and the CRD and given that any diesel would have better resale value and opportunity here in Oz, especially depending on the price of petrol on the day, I'm leaning towards the VM CRD now that chips are coming out for the new VM. Company pays for fuel so the only concern is the local service guys knowing how to service the engine.

I work for Cat so getting an EGT fitted, amongst other things, should be easy.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #305  
Old 08-09-2013, 02:43 AM
BobT's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2012 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 1,669
Thanks: 516
Thanked 65 Times in 57 Posts
Rep Power: 73496
BobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond repute
Garage
Re: Anyone tuned a CRD yet?

FWIW, I asked Bluespark a couple of question. Firstly I asked if they knew how Chrysler managed to get more power out of the 2014 "EcoDiesel" and secondly, if the Bluespark unit applies increased rail pressure and at what setting does it kick in. This is their reply, all quite reasonable I thought:

"Hi Bob,

1. I am not entirely sure what they have done, but usually it is a combination of improvements such as higher boost pressure, finer spray injectors, increased fuel pressure etc. Often though it is more that the older engine was purposely produced with a lower output so that next years model can be better.

2. Yes they do, our Pro model has fuel maps on there which can raise maximum fuel pressure, our Pro+Boost models can raise both maximum fuel pressure and boost pressure if you are looking for the best power output.

Thanks,

Jason"

Regarding the difference in power, I think it's more of a case of having the first release engines detuned to mitigate the risk of have the engine gain a reputation of being a lemon. Such a reputation would kill a car stone dead. As they gain confidence in the engine's reliability, they then turn up the tune and as Jason says, it gives the impression of continuous improvement.
__________________
Ordered 9 Nov 2011 - Delivered 3:30pm Friday 13 April 2012
Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 3L CRD, Black Forest Green Pearl, Quadra-lift, Off-road Adventure II, Front Recovery Hook, Mopar Tow Bar, Mopar Rock Rails, 150A Projecta Battery Isolator, Tekonsha P3 Brake Controller, Bridgestone D697 265/60R18 LT, Kimberley Kamper Special Edition
MudMap M7 off/on road sat nav, Chief front recovery hooks "chrome", Chief 3mm bash plate
Reply With Quote
  #306  
Old 08-09-2013, 03:03 AM
Radknight's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 6.4L WK2
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 376
Thanks: 7
Thanked 28 Times in 26 Posts
Rep Power: 1616
Radknight has a reputation beyond reputeRadknight has a reputation beyond reputeRadknight has a reputation beyond reputeRadknight has a reputation beyond reputeRadknight has a reputation beyond reputeRadknight has a reputation beyond reputeRadknight has a reputation beyond reputeRadknight has a reputation beyond reputeRadknight has a reputation beyond reputeRadknight has a reputation beyond reputeRadknight has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anyone tuned a CRD yet?

Great info and makes perfect sense. Good news for the guys with pre-2014 CRD's. Boost 'em up.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #307  
Old 08-11-2013, 01:27 AM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 127
Thanks: 14
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 969
200sxr is on a distinguished road
Re: Anyone tuned a CRD yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExcursionDiesel View Post
Overfueling = unburned fuel = smoke. Not destructive, just nasty. It may clog up the EGR over time, as stated. The "big power" diesel guys let it smoke since it takes fuel to make power and the smoke clears up once boost arrives.

bd
The major issue with current generation diesel is excessive smoke / soot can potentially lead to DPF failure.
__________________
Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines - Enzo Ferrari
Reply With Quote
  #308  
Old 08-11-2013, 01:35 AM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 127
Thanks: 14
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 969
200sxr is on a distinguished road
Re: Anyone tuned a CRD yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yoda42 View Post
All the info I have read has said the over fuelling a diesel causes excessive engine temps, and can cause big problems, with petrol engines over fuelling cause no problems but smoke, with diesels over fuelling can be fatal for the engine
Actually over fueling in a petrol engine will not cause smoke like it does in a diesel. One fundamental difference between diesel and petrol is petrol engine will make less power once you go over certain AF ratio whereas with diesel the more fuel you get into the combustion chamber the more power you will get out of it.

The more work any engine does there will be more heat generated.
__________________
Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines - Enzo Ferrari
Reply With Quote
  #309  
Old 08-12-2013, 12:28 AM
BobT's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2012 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 1,669
Thanks: 516
Thanked 65 Times in 57 Posts
Rep Power: 73496
BobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond repute
Garage
Re: Anyone tuned a CRD yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 200sxr View Post
The major issue with current generation diesel is excessive smoke / soot can potentially lead to DPF failure.
No smoke nor smell issues from "current gerneration" diesels thanks to ULSD fuel. Just ask those with current CRDs.
__________________
Ordered 9 Nov 2011 - Delivered 3:30pm Friday 13 April 2012
Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 3L CRD, Black Forest Green Pearl, Quadra-lift, Off-road Adventure II, Front Recovery Hook, Mopar Tow Bar, Mopar Rock Rails, 150A Projecta Battery Isolator, Tekonsha P3 Brake Controller, Bridgestone D697 265/60R18 LT, Kimberley Kamper Special Edition
MudMap M7 off/on road sat nav, Chief front recovery hooks "chrome", Chief 3mm bash plate
Reply With Quote
  #310  
Old 08-12-2013, 03:04 AM
yoda42's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2011 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Darwin Australia
Posts: 358
Thanks: 0
Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 1648
yoda42 has a reputation beyond reputeyoda42 has a reputation beyond reputeyoda42 has a reputation beyond reputeyoda42 has a reputation beyond reputeyoda42 has a reputation beyond reputeyoda42 has a reputation beyond reputeyoda42 has a reputation beyond reputeyoda42 has a reputation beyond reputeyoda42 has a reputation beyond reputeyoda42 has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by 200sxr View Post

Actually over fueling in a petrol engine will not cause smoke like it does in a diesel. One fundamental difference between diesel and petrol is petrol engine will make less power once you go over certain AF ratio whereas with diesel the more fuel you get into the combustion chamber the more power you will get out of it.

The more work any engine does there will be more heat generated.
I didn't say smoke like a diesel, I was just trying to point out that over fuelling a petrol will cause no problem, but some smoke if over fuelled enough, where as over fuelling a diesel can cause excessive heat and be fatal to a diesel engine
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]2011 Grand Cherokee Laredo CRD & Aussieswag Rover LX Campertrailer
www.travelswithbeagles.blogspot.com
Reply With Quote
  #311  
Old 08-12-2013, 11:10 AM
ExcursionDiesel's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: W. TN.
Posts: 1,542
Thanks: 4
Thanked 219 Times in 147 Posts
Rep Power: 2907
ExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond reputeExcursionDiesel has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by yoda42 View Post
....where as over fuelling a diesel can cause excessive heat and be fatal to a diesel engine
Agreed...when factoring in duty cycle. Continuous heavy duty use with overfueling creates constant excessive EGTs that will anneal valve and turbo components. Its purely load dependent. This is why we should always have an EGT gauge and NEVER tow in Performance settings when running a tuned diesel.

Larger free flowing intake and exhaust can help lower EGTs.

bd
__________________
----------------------
The founder of JeepGarage.org, Scottina06, has a son Max who is in need of corrective surgery from an infection at birth that left one leg 4 inches short. We need to support our Jeep brothers. His family has started a fund on giveforward.com. If you have ever been helped by someone else, now is a good time to pay it forward. Here is a link to that page. God bless you! http://gfwd.at/1rz33PW
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ExcursionDiesel For This Useful Post:
  #312  
Old 08-21-2013, 04:57 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 15
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 563
Bobalouie is on a distinguished road
Re: Anyone tuned a CRD yet?

I wonder how the Bluespark is going to interact with the new Eco Mode turned on? Anyone have any ideas?
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2004 4.7 Dakota, tuned with SCT FlyinRyan Flyin' Ryan Performance 2 04-09-2012 11:38 PM
Crd wkthursty Diesel Powered WK Grand Cherokee 9 03-15-2012 09:38 AM
2007 Dyno Tuned IronGuillotine Tuners/CMR/Dyno/DataLogging/Gauges 7 03-08-2011 02:47 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2012 - JeepGarage.Org
The Jeep Grand Cherokee Owners Community