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  #109  
Old 02-29-2012, 07:37 AM
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Re: Diesel Grand Cherokee Coming to US!

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Originally Posted by frog_a_lot View Post
Hey i never said Aus is #1, i said Aus is worse per Capita than the US
i am just sitting on the sidelines throwing in information for others to argue :P

Computer models not being proof, what proof would you like? Things like that are exteremly hard to prove with not using a computer. It is like saying "My Jeep can withstand a 747 crashing into it, prove me wrong" you cant use a computer simulation, and i can guarentee a 747 hasnt crashed into a 2012 Jeep GC before. Yes silly example, but we all know what the result will be, even with out it having to happen.
True, you didn't make that assertion, Milous did. You were implicitly trying to support that assertion though with your follow on post.

As for what proof would I like? mmm Maybe some facts would be nice. Something that has been subjected to the scientific method, not populist pap. Perhaps real world data taken from measurements and scientific observation. (That does not include Al Gore telling us the Polar Bears are drowning BTW)

Computer models are not, and never will be proof of anything, and no credible scientist would claim they are. Models are based on scores of assumptions and estimates to test theories. If any assumption is incorrect, the whole model is invalid. Before you jump on that statement, consider this carefully. You will never hear a scientist assert that a model proves anything, it may support a theory or indicate something, but it proves nothing by itself. A model is subject to the data that is fed into it. Don't like what the model tells you? No problems, just punch in different parameters until you get the result you want. Notwithstanding that, climate change boosters still cannot account for why the real world is not behaving like the models. e.g. Global temperatures have not increased in the past 15 years, but carbon emissions continue to increase. If the models were right, there should be a correlation but there is not. Mathematician and Physicist, Prof. Freeman Dyson explains why models aren't evidence here:

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/n...2d-947d65555e8

Anyway, fascinating as this all is, it has nothing to do with Diesel Jeeps, so lets just stick to the topic.

PS That was a silly example you gave Froggy, you're right

Cheers.
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  #110  
Old 03-03-2012, 08:09 PM
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Re: Diesel Grand Cherokee Coming to US!

Has little to do with Jeeps, you can find a statistic to bend to say anything you want. Real world tends to be a little different. When the Ross ice shelf arrives in Sydney I'll be concerned about global warming, near as I can tell we just came out of the little ice age and the pendulum is swinging. Suspect a decent volcano will have more of an effect.

That said I am a convert (and nothing is worse than a convert). My RV is the heaviest vehicle I own (6300 lbs) and has the smallest engine (2.4 liter) but gets the best gas milage (27-29 MPG on Interstates and does not hold up traffic). Said to top out at the ton but I've never tried.

Why ? It has the engine from a BMW 524TD and a Renault UN-1 gearbox. Problem was it also came out in 1986 when GM had just thoroughly destroyed the small diesel market in the US (was told that Mercedes had planned to be over 90% diesel by 1990). Somthing that is just now going away but is being stifiled by "interesting" emissions requirements that large diesels do not have to meet.

Might be because diesels can run on the product of the Alaskan pipeline (already used to correct the trade imbalance so not to be sold in the US) and not Corn (Florida is ideal for Sugar Beets and Sweet Sorgham so am glad the Pentastar is flex-fuel). Whatever, am sure there is a non-engineering reason behind it. Don't care.

Already, Diesel here is priced above premium gasoline so needs to be at least 25% more efficient to start. Add A Lot of consumers and price might go up even further.

Also diesel is not hybrid, electric, (though a hybrid with about a 800 cc diesel could be interesting...), or green.

That said, at present I am planning to keep my Pentastar for a couple of decades because the diesel was not available when I bought it. Will run the trades when the 3.0TD/eight speed is available so might switch but "insufficient data" today.

As to diesel mechanics, most are parts swappers anymore anyway. Really good ones tend to find better paying and air conditioned employment. Are some exceptions but not enough to meet demand. From my viewpoint with modern direct injection and super high compression, there is not that much difference between a diesel and a gas engine except a diesel does not need a throttle body & with a turbo you really do not need a muffler.
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  #111  
Old 03-04-2012, 05:45 PM
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Re: Diesel Grand Cherokee Coming to US!

I think that diesel price is probably a bit better in Aus which means the purchase of one makes a bit more sense. Diesel here is pretty much the same as petrol, and doesnt seem to fluctuate. It is about 10c per litre less than out high octane (98) petrol.

But the economy is much better, i have had mine for 2000ks, this involved 500ks towing 1700kg and my economy is around 8.8L/100 (27mpg), so without the towing this would drop down a chunk. That is main reason i purchased a CRD.
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  #112  
Old 03-04-2012, 07:35 PM
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If you do any regular towing, you would pick the diesel over petrol every time. While diesel in Australia is generally 10c-15c a litre more than regular unleaded, I never put that E10 rubbish in my cars anyway. It is generally around the same price as 95RON but you get much better fuel economy with diesel Overland magazine did a recent comparison between the cost of ownership of a CRD Wrangler and the petrol model and at 100 000 km (60,000 miles) the CRD worked out around $4k more expensive to own. Valid if you use E10, but the figures would change dramatically if you use 95RON. The article also didn't consider fuel consumption if you tow regularly. In that case, the fuel consumption of both vehicles would be increased but it would only be a moderate increase for the diesel but a significant increase for the petrol model. Bottom line is that if you don't tow or leave the Tarmac regularly, the case for diesel over petrol becomes a lot less compelling.
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  #113  
Old 03-10-2012, 09:15 PM
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Re: Diesel Grand Cherokee Coming to US!

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Originally Posted by QuickOne View Post

I don't understand what the US's issue is with diesel today, but it's apparently becoming a bit more "acceptable" seeing this headline!
Hey, Brian, what happened to your SRT? Accident of some sort?
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  #114  
Old 03-10-2012, 10:07 PM
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Re: Diesel Grand Cherokee Coming to US!

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Originally Posted by BostonDMD View Post
Hey, Brian, what happened to your SRT? Accident of some sort?
That's what PM's are for
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  #115  
Old 04-11-2012, 10:25 AM
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Re: Diesel Grand Cherokee Coming to US!

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Originally Posted by milous View Post
but not #1 in per capita pollution, close though, australia is in 1st place.
snap!
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  #116  
Old 04-13-2012, 09:06 AM
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Re: Diesel Grand Cherokee Coming to US!

The odd part is that diesel fuel comes from a lower grade of petrolium than gasoline (sweet petrolium). So some petrolium is not suitable for gasoline - the oil from the Alaskan pipeline is an example. Further, you get more diesel/jet fuel from a barrel of crude than gasoline (see the distillation process).



In times past, diesel was less expensive than 87 PON but taxes and emissions requirements (e.g. low sulphur) fixed that so today, in the US, Diesel is commonly about 10% higher at the pump than 87 PON.
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  #117  
Old 04-14-2012, 10:08 PM
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Re: Diesel Grand Cherokee Coming to US!

I have a question... No urea for the jeep diesel? Really? Every other new diesel needs it to be 50 state legal. The BMW doesn't have it in europe as their particulate restrictions are not yet as strict as California... But here they have it. I suspect we will see urea injection in it.. .

This means if you park your car outside and drive short distances in the very cold (less than 12F) it may never melt, and will eventually not allow you to drive (that's what BMW diesels can do), thank you EPA, for that "safety" measure.. So much for less moving parts... There is a urea tank and it needs to have a heater element to melt the urea in cold weather! I don't see diesels being more reliable than gas because of these ancillary things that can and do break.


Second point is the BMW X5d owners are reporting real-world MPG's in mid to low 20's on hwy (probably 75-80mph).. I drive that fast going long distances in my neck of the woods. I get 17 with a cargo pod on top in my 5.7... I want a diesel, but if I get 22 in those situations, I'd be losing money. There is NO WAY it will get 32hwy with AWD, 4500+ pounds, and real-world hwy speeds. No modern diesel SUV's do.

I had decided on the 3l turbo X5 over their diesel for the above reasons... Then I bought my V8 jeep and love it! But I'd love 25+ MPG too. I just don't think it's possible. City MPG in the diesel will be probably very good, however.
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  #118  
Old 04-14-2012, 11:27 PM
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Re: Diesel Grand Cherokee Coming to US!

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Originally Posted by comnjeep View Post
I have a question... No urea for the jeep diesel? Really? Every other new diesel needs it to be 50 state legal. The BMW doesn't have it in europe as their particulate restrictions are not yet as strict as California... But here they have it. I suspect we will see urea injection in it.. .

This means if you park your car outside and drive short distances in the very cold (less than 12F) it may never melt, and will eventually not allow you to drive (that's what BMW diesels can do), thank you EPA, for that "safety" measure.. So much for less moving parts... There is a urea tank and it needs to have a heater element to melt the urea in cold weather! I don't see diesels being more reliable than gas because of these ancillary things that can and do break.


Second point is the BMW X5d owners are reporting real-world MPG's in mid to low 20's on hwy (probably 75-80mph).. I drive that fast going long distances in my neck of the woods. I get 17 with a cargo pod on top in my 5.7... I want a diesel, but if I get 22 in those situations, I'd be losing money. There is NO WAY it will get 32hwy with AWD, 4500+ pounds, and real-world hwy speeds. No modern diesel SUV's do.

I had decided on the 3l turbo X5 over their diesel for the above reasons... Then I bought my V8 jeep and love it! But I'd love 25+ MPG too. I just don't think it's possible. City MPG in the diesel will be probably very good, however.
I can't speak much on the urea issue but I would think that frozen urea wouldn't matter... (I guess in a BMW it does) as along as the tank is not empty the vehicle should run fine. Empty and it throws the vehicle into limp mode. At least that is how it's supposed to work on some modern diesel trucks.

From what I've read there are plenty overseas getting 30+ mpg highway in the diesel wk2. Seems like some managed high 20's with the older diesel wk as well.
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Old 04-14-2012, 11:31 PM
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Re: Diesel Grand Cherokee Coming to US!

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Originally Posted by comnjeep View Post
I have a question... No urea for the jeep diesel? Really? Every other new diesel needs it to be 50 state legal. The BMW doesn't have it in europe as their particulate restrictions are not yet as strict as California... But here they have it. I suspect we will see urea injection in it..
The Jetta TDI does not use urea injection and it is 50 state legal.
http://www.hybridcars.com/vehicle/vo...jetta-tdi.html
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:55 PM
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Re: Diesel Grand Cherokee Coming to US!

Quote:
Originally Posted by comnjeep View Post
I have a question... No urea for the jeep diesel? Really? Every other new diesel needs it to be 50 state legal. The BMW doesn't have it in europe as their particulate restrictions are not yet as strict as California... But here they have it. I suspect we will see urea injection in it.. .

This means if you park your car outside and drive short distances in the very cold (less than 12F) it may never melt, and will eventually not allow you to drive (that's what BMW diesels can do), thank you EPA, for that "safety" measure.. So much for less moving parts... There is a urea tank and it needs to have a heater element to melt the urea in cold weather! I don't see diesels being more reliable than gas because of these ancillary things that can and do break.


Second point is the BMW X5d owners are reporting real-world MPG's in mid to low 20's on hwy (probably 75-80mph).. I drive that fast going long distances in my neck of the woods. I get 17 with a cargo pod on top in my 5.7... I want a diesel, but if I get 22 in those situations, I'd be losing money. There is NO WAY it will get 32hwy with AWD, 4500+ pounds, and real-world hwy speeds. No modern diesel SUV's do.

I had decided on the 3l turbo X5 over their diesel for the above reasons... Then I bought my V8 jeep and love it! But I'd love 25+ MPG too. I just don't think it's possible. City MPG in the diesel will be probably very good, however.
You are flat out wrong. My 2011 Touareg TDI (5000 lbs) gets better than 32 mpg at 60 mph on the interstate. All of my fill ups are posted at fuelly.com see "tdi sport" under the 2011 section.
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