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Diesel People - Enlighten Me? (2014)

44K views 276 replies 62 participants last post by  SNUKE 
#1 ·
First, sorry about posting this as a new thread... tried the search function but didn't find an answer.

With the 2014 coming out, I was hoping some diesel people could post about the pros and cons of a diesel for daily use. I know very little about diesel engines and have never driven one, and I'm currently trying to decide between the 3 available engines.

I live in Colorado and my daily commute involves about 60 miles round trip. My family and closest friends are in Chicagoland, with a few scattered throughout the country, so I usually do at least 1, sometimes 2, long roadtrips each year. I will also be using the GC on forest service roads and the Colorado backcountry to get out to good hikes, climbs, camping, snowboarding, etc, though I won't be doing anything near as crazy as I've done with my JK (trading it).

I've considered all three engines. The V6 with the 8-speed may provide enough power, and certainly gets good MPG. The Hemi, well it's a Hemi, and it sounds like the power the on highway would be great, the torque offroad would be good, and the MPGs aren't too bad.

Now the diesel sounds like the perfect mix. Good power on the highway, great torque offroad (I don't own any toys to tow), and great MPGs. However, I am completely ignorant of diesels, so some practical questions:

How PITA is the who urea thing?

It gets cold here sometimes. Will a diesel engine with remote start actually warm up in my driveway? Is warming up a diesel engine before driving any different than a gas engine?

Does that black smoke happen with all diesels? My experience with diesel is always some dude in a F-350 blowing thick clouds of black smoke down the entrance ramp. I would be mortified if my vehicle did that. I'm all for rugged but I have a suit-wearing job and black clouds of smoke would be unacceptable to me.

Are there any other weird quirks to owning a diesel? Diesel intrigues me, but I'm at a point in life where I'd rather pay someone else to work on my vehicles. I just want something that gets me to work in comfort and style, gets me roadtrips without breaking the bank on gas, gets me down a forest service road without complaint, and does well at altitude.

I'm hoping that modern diesels are mostly behind the scenes, as in the experience of driving one isn't much different than driving a gasoline vehicle, except with gobs and gobs of torque.

So basically, what's it like day to day driving a diesel that's different than a gasoline engine?

Thanks!
 
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#2 ·
From what you have stated about your situation and needs I would say that the diesel is the one for you. You will have the best performance through the elevation changes as well as the best mileage. The new generation diesels don't blow black smoke and they don't have the same choking smell to them either.

If you know how to fill your windshield washer reservoir you can fill the DEF (Diesel Emission Fluid) tank. I don't recall for sure how often it needs to be filled but not very frequently (10,000 miles?)

I hope that helps.
 
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#3 ·
I live in Colorado and my daily commute involves about 60 miles round trip. My family and closest friends are in Chicagoland, with a few scattered throughout the country, so I usually do at least 1, sometimes 2, long roadtrips each year. I will also be using the GC on forest service roads and the Colorado backcountry to get out to good hikes, climbs, camping, snowboarding, etc, though I won't be doing anything near as crazy as I've done with my JK (trading it).
For long distance highway, the diesel would be your best bet. For playing around in the hills and such, honestly, anything is fine. The Torque form the diesel will be an advantage for slow, deliberate climbing and such, but, with the hill descent/ascent control the other two should be fine as well (they will just rev higher).

I've considered all three engines. The V6 with the 8-speed may provide enough power, and certainly gets good MPG. The Hemi, well it's a Hemi, and it sounds like the power the on highway would be great, the torque offroad would be good, and the MPGs aren't too bad.
For pure, honest, day to day driving, you'd be hard pressed to see a huge difference between the MPG of the V6 and the CRD. The CRD will be better, but it won't be Earth shattering better then the V6. It will be quite a bit better than the V8 though.

How PITA is the who urea thing?
As the other poster has pointed out, it's no more difficult then putting washer fluid/oil, or fuel in your rig.

You will need to top off *roughly* every oil change (5-7k miles).

It gets cold here sometimes. Will a diesel engine with remote start actually warm up in my driveway? Is warming up a diesel engine before driving any different than a gas engine?
Diesels will not warm up as fast. A Petrol engine is less efficient, and thusly, turns more of the fuel into heat. A Diesel, is more efficient, and will take longer to warm up.

That being said, invest in the heated seats and steering wheel, and you will be fine. She'll warm up quick enough.

Does that black smoke happen with all diesels? My experience with diesel is always some dude in a F-350 blowing thick clouds of black smoke down the entrance ramp.
No, a good solid, modern diesel engine will not do that. Those engines are the Cummin's and are, well.. a much older design. To get an idea of what to expect, go to either a VW, BMW, or a Mercdes Benz dealer and check out either a Toureg, X5 35d, or GL 350BluTech.

They are all diesel CRD engines using similar transmissions. You will get a feel for the acceleration, handling, and exhaust you could expect from the Jeep (at about half the cost).

Are there any other weird quirks to owning a diesel?
Do the maintenance as laid out by the manufacturer. Diesels are tough, but if you miss a maintenance window, you will be sorry.

Some modern diesels have issues with the fuel pumps literally coming apart in the system (causing bad juju), however, they are, relatively speaking, corner cases.

Lastly, for the love of God and all things Holy... don't put gasoline in it. Doing so will require a MASSIVE amount of work to correct.

Other than those... it's just like a petrol engine, but... more torque.
 
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#14 ·
For pure, honest, day to day driving, you'd be hard pressed to see a huge difference between the MPG of the V6 and the CRD. The CRD will be better, but it won't be Earth shattering better then the V6. It will be quite a bit better than the V8 though.
Users on a local Australian forum are reporting that the V6 petrol uses about 30-45% more fuel than the diesel.
This is during normal daily driving.
 
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#4 ·
First thing you should do is go to the dealership you'd have your Jeep serviced at. Ask them how much they'd charge you to change the spark plugs in a CRD Jeep. If they give you a quote, don't consider buying a diesel.

A HUGE portion of WK1 CRDs were destroyed by incompetent service departments.
 
#5 ·
First thing you should do is go to the dealership you'd have your Jeep serviced at. Ask them how much they'd charge you to change the spark plugs in a CRD Jeep. If they give you a quote, don't consider buying a diesel.
/snarf

OMG.. that's awesome. I'll have to remember that.
 
#6 ·
Get the CRD!

Enough said.
 
#8 ·
I think I'm convinced. It was the way I originally intended to go as soon as I heard about it, but then I talked myself out of it due to my unfamiliarity with diesel and horror stories of people being unable to get factory warranty work done b/c dealerships didn't have any techs.

Hopefully the latter doesn't happen again, but I think you've talked me into taking the plunge. It does seem the best fit, and it'll be something new and exciting if nothing else.
 
#9 ·
I've thought about trading in my 2012 V8 for one in a year or so... But I'm worried about cold starts and frozen urea (-22f here this week).. I was reminded that you pretty much can't warm up a diesel at idle, so why have remote start??

30mpg would be nice on hwy, but frankly, I'd need to own one for over 100,000 miles just to make the price difference up with gas. And there's NO WAY the diesel will perform like the hemi. Sorry, it won't.

I would consider the new diesel now if I was in the market.

The only other thing I've heard from people (and this may sound silly...) is that their spouses don't like to pump the fuel because it is a mess. But at 600 miles per tank, when would they have to?
 
#11 ·
is that their spouses don't like to pump the fuel because it is a mess
Don't know where you are located, but this isn't an issue anymore here in Oz. Most modern fuel stations are fine. And my local servo still has driveway service!!!
 
#15 · (Edited)
Yeah, I should clarify.

You will see a difference. Conservitively 3-5MPG I'd estimate given the numbers on hand (though, it could be more).

But, it won't be mindblowing (like 10-15MPG).

Generally, petrol engines seem to come in closer to the lower end of the EPA estimates, in daily driving, while diesels tend to be more mid-estimate.

I am curious about this comment though:
comnjeep said:
And there's NO WAY the diesel will perform like the hemi. Sorry, it won't.
In what way?

It will tow just as much with no where near the rev count required.
It will get far superior MPG (especially towing).
It's just as fast flying down the highway or in town.
It's just as fast (or faster given the official numbers from Jeep) offline line in 0-60.

If you mean it won't weaze like an old man up a mountain pass, you are right there... the CRD will not perform like a Hemi. :D
 
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#21 · (Edited)
Yeah, I should clarify.

You will see a difference. Conservitively 3-5MPG I'd estimate given the numbers on hand (though, it could be more).

But, it won't be mindblowing (like 10-15MPG).

Generally, petrol engines seem to come in closer to the lower end of the EPA estimates, in daily driving, while diesels tend to be more mid-estimate.
Yes, but it will get up and move a lot quicker than the v6 and tow more. All while performing the points you've mentioned.

Sure the v6 is great engine. Its a good selection for city/suburban stop and go and little to no towing IMO.

TS, just drive a touareg, and x5 35d. Do a few highway merges and ask yourself if the mountain of torque is worth an extra $12-$15 per fill up. To me it's a no brainer.
 
#16 ·
..don´t worry about the CRD. In Germany most upper class SUVs are diesel powered with nice engines up to 8 cyl/ 385hp.
They usually have an auxiliary heater, most of the time due to emission control since a warm engine runs cleaner.
A modern diesel engine you might notice slightly in cold weather by a little harder engine noise, however, usually the difference to a gasoline powered engine is nowadays barely noticeable.
For Service: Usually diesel engines are pretty reliable and dont require special attention more than changing oil, oil and diesel filters. Thats even possible for not so well trained staff. However, if you need to open up the engine, expertise is needed.

There is kind of a hstorical hostility for diesel engines in the US, however, if you look at the millions of cars with diesel engines in Europe you really dont have to worry, especially because the diesel engien in the jeep is built by a reknown italian engien manufacturer for diesel engines (VM motori)

..buy it and be happy!

Happy Day

Achim
 
#17 ·
Australia was similar to the US, hostile to diesel.
Then we cleaned up the quality of our diesel and got some good engines here, now there is a massive swing to them.
The CRD is the most demanded engine in Aus.
 
#18 · (Edited)
I had a Golf diesel 2 liter for 3 years, it was a 2006 model I believe. It was one of the last not to have a particulate filter. If you looked out the back on full throttle, there was diesel smoke, but if you drive normally you never saw or smelled smoke inside or outside.

It had bags of torque and was a great highway cruiser. That was the older generation of euro car diesels. Then they all got proper particulate filters. Then they added urea injection, and further optimised the economy and noise.

Walk into a vw yard and ask for a touareg test drive, tell em you're trying to decide between that and a Jeep CRD. Stand at the back with it idling see if you can smell anything. Take it for a drive and feel the hefty shove at low rpm, watch the gearbox keep the revs way low even if you push on. See if you can detect any diesel clatter in the car. I've driven the Q5 3.0 TDI, the Touarag the volvo XC60 diesel, the GC CRD, the range rover sport 3 liter diesel. They all sound, look and smell pretty much the same now: that is, great!

on a highway going up a steep ascent with cruise control on, they just don't need to change down from top gear. At 1500rpm they're making more power than the same displacement petrol engine at 3000rpm.

Get a box of disposable food preparation gloves for those diesel pumps where the diesel has got onto the handle. Once you get it on your fingers, a wet-one isn't enough to get it off.
 
#45 · (Edited)
At the "12 Hours of Sebring" in Sebring, FL this March, just like every March recently, the Fastest, Quietest and the most reliable cars in the race are diesels. A Diesel Race Car has won in 2006-Audi,2007-Audi,2009-Audi,2010-Peugeot,2011-Peugeot,2012-Audi. If they were all diesels you wouldn't need ear plugs anymore at the races and it would be a lot more competitive.
 
#23 ·
Now that the long awaited diesel is here the problem is the pricing. A Summit with diesel is $55K which is now in X5 territory. Considering BMW offers extra incentives on the diesel and includes free maintenance, the case for going Jeep has gotten much weaker for me. We are current owners of 2 BMWs (M3 & 535xiT) and was looking for a less expensive alternative to replace the wagon. The GC seemed like it had it all but now it is priced too close to the premium brands. The excessive chrome on the Summit and bad wheel choices is also a turn off. Disappointing...
 
#24 ·
So load up a limited with the diesel and save another $5-$6k...I find it interesting that people are getting upset that Chryfi is marketing their premium suv as a premium suv that is designed to directly compete with BMW et al. The Chrome overdose I agree with though it seems like they are marketing it to rap stars with all that bling.

Think Outside !- No Box Required.
 
#26 ·
I guess it depends on your priorities. For me a virtually unbeatable 4wd system outweighs getting served a scone and a latte while buying a truck.Leather dash nice ...Overland. 19 speaker audio also nice...significantly better than the 9 speaker in the Overland? Maybe when parked after that road noise and movement destroy imaging. Everyone has different requirements and the GC meet mine better than the BMW and since having my vehicle to drive without weekly trips to the dealer Range Rover is out ;) Enjoy your new truck...whatever you buy.

Think Outside !- No Box Required.
 
#27 ·
Consider also the fact that diesel has turbocharger. Given the fact that you are at significant elevation you will see HUGE difference in performance between V6, V8 and diesel. Diesel will not loose as much power as V6 and V8.

If I was in your situation I would strongly consider diesel (if you can afford it). I'm still debating between V6 Overland or Limited with Diesel.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Thanks for all the viewpoints.

So last weekend I drove from Denver where it was 60 degrees F out to Steamboat Springs through steep uphill mountain passes. Jeep was parked outside and I woke up to -5 degree F weather.

Hemi people: How much struggle would I have had climbing from 6000 ft above sea level to 10-12.5k above sea level? That's steep grades and mountain passes?

CRD people: How much trouble would I have had starting the thing in the morning. Seat warmers and cabin heaters (if it has one) can make me comfortable, but will the thing start and drive in that weather after sitting outside all night?

This thread is great. Not making my decision any easier, but making it a lot more informed.
 
#29 ·
I've owned 2 diesel cars and I'm thinking about buying a CRD. I love driving a diesel for a number of reasons but most importantly for me is the fun factor. The torque is amazing. Great fuel economy is a nice bonus.

My current car, a 335d, has DEF and I've never had to refill it myself so that means it's only been refilled at the dealer (free maintenance) when getting oil changes.

No soot or black smoke from either my 2005 TDI or my current car. No smell at all.

Getting fuel is no different or more messy than regular gas at most civilized fuel stations. If you're in BFE, it might be different because you might need to use the truck fueling stations but at city stations, it's just like the gas.

Fuel is more expensive. In the winter, by a lot (about 20% more) so it makes the financial case a little less clear. It's frustrating but it is what it is.

My only current hesitation is the incredible premium for the CRD over either the V6 or the Hemi. That's not cool. I'm hoping that if these sit on lots for a while, we'll get some better deals.

One last thing - I can't speak to the cold weather starting/heating since I live in NC and park in my garage but they make block heaters to help the process in the winter. You should definitely look into that.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Does anyone know if the optional block heater is self-contained, or do you need to plug it into an outlet?

Also, with the Limited Lux, the diesel is only about $1k over the Hemi unless I calculated something wrong. I'm wondering too if maybe Jeep will offer some sort of incentive by the time of delivery. Depends on how serious they are about marketing the diesel as a purchase option vs marketing it's MPG to up fleet numbers. I'm not holding my breath, but I could see a rebate to stimulate initial sales, to be phased out as demand increases. Then again, it's Jeep.
 
#37 ·
You can do all the calculations you want. It may give you the best car but it won't be the car you want. Test drive the CRD, the Pentastar and the Hemi and your choice will be clear.
 
#39 ·
I'm not trying to argue, just discuss...

As to the CRD better than a hemi performance-wise...

I can tell you my v8 2012 JGC went to 11,000 feet being able to accelerate (slowly) in 4th at 75mph fully loaded with gear, cargo pod on top, and bike on back.

I've driven modern diesels. They have torque, but seriously, they're lame performance wise. They just are boring.

I am indeed considering one for mpg, but not performance.

I know there are a lot of Aussies on this forum, let's be straight, what are your fuel prices?

Mine are about US$ gas 3.10 gas; 3.40 diesel per gallon currently.

There is no doubt all that matters to many is miles/$ for fuel.

The lure for a long time with diesels was reliability and mpg (not performance)... Now reliability is in serious question as they are so complicated (such as auxiliary heater???, urea, electric everything...). MPG is important, but if gas is 3$/gallon, not so much...

The problem I personally have with the new diesel is I need to see its reliability for a few years before I replace a hemi V8.
 
#43 · (Edited)
The lure for a long time with diesels was reliability and mpg (not performance)... Now reliability is in serious question as they are so complicated (such as auxiliary heater???, urea, electric everything...). MPG is important, but if gas is 3$/gallon, not so much...

The problem I personally have with the new diesel is I need to see its reliability for a few years before I replace a hemi V8.
What do you mean "complicated"? "Auxiliary heater", never heard of it and don't have one! "Urea", don't have a piss tank in the VM Motori CRDs. "Electric everything", shit it doesn't even have an ignition system, no dizzy, no coil, no high tension leads, no 16 spark plugs to replace like in the hemi. Will run under water. No smoke. No smell. Fuel won't explode with a spark. The fuel itself is a lubricant not like gasoline which washes away lubricant. Bullet proof block. Ask your mechanic when he last saw a worn out diesel. Huge flat torque curve low down, 550Nm (406lb-ft) 1,800-2,800rpm, will out drag the 5.7L hemi off lights. What's not to like?
 
#41 ·
Comnjeep you guys in the USA have no idea how cheap your fuel prices are!. At my current prices diesel would be @$6.40 a gallon, and gas would be @$5.75 a gallon in Europe the price is even worse, not to mention you pay $15,000 less to buy your GC to start with.
So quite your whining about the cost of diesel ;-)
 
#47 ·
At my current prices diesel would be @$6.40 a gallon, and gas would be @$5.75 a gallon
You are in Darwin, so that is even worse.
Here in Sydney, todays average diesel is $5.60 per gallon and premium unleaded is $5.49.

You just have to drive it. Even though it has a quicker 0-60 time than the V8, it does it differently of course as it does not have that quick spin up, so it feels more muted.
If you need to overtake at speed, well you are already in the meat of the torque so you just go straight away, no wind up required.

If you are towing, forget about it, there is no competition.
 
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