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  #241  
Old 02-26-2013, 01:55 AM
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Re: Diesel People - Enlighten Me? (2014)

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Originally Posted by Red G8R View Post
Why would you not want a cleaner emissions vehicle?
Of course we want cleaner emissions from our cars but not at the expense of environmental degradation upstream. Urea is an expensive work-around just to be seen to be doing something. It's just like all the pollution crap they put on cars in the 1980s. Good design eliminated all that.
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  #242  
Old 02-26-2013, 03:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comnjeep View Post
So that's at least a $10K premium for a less powerful engine
Less powerful in which way? It has the same towing capacity as the Hemi and is just as quick. Sure it doesn't have as many horses, but the ones it does have will pull anything the Hemi can, and with less effort and fuel.
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  #243  
Old 02-26-2013, 06:31 AM
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Re: Diesel People - Enlighten Me? (2014)

This Popular Mechanics article claims the CRD will be for sale on 01 March. A local dealer last night said he doesn't expect the CRD to be available in Northern California for a few more months.

Has anyone heard when it'll be orderable?
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  #244  
Old 02-26-2013, 01:57 PM
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Re: Diesel People - Enlighten Me? (2014)

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Originally Posted by fwdjeep View Post
Urea
Add costs to service fees
Boy of boy am i sick of added costs
We have the governments hands in our pockets on a daily basis
Don't wont more costs
Does the urea injection system not mean that less EGR will be required and therefore less carbon buildup on the intake track and turbo? Better mileage too?
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  #245  
Old 02-26-2013, 03:08 PM
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Re: Diesel People - Enlighten Me? (2014)

From an autoblog review...

Quote:
Opting for the diesel won't bring any compromises in utility, either. Both the V8 and EcoDiesel models can tow up to 7,400 pounds (four-wheel drive drops all ratings by 200 lbs, and the the V6 manages up to 6,200), and while acceleration from the oil-burner may not match that of the Hemi and its 360 hp and 390 lb-ft, it's certainly no slouch. It's also worth mentioning that the base gasoline V6 engine is perfectly adequate as well, with the eight-speed making the most of the Pentastar's 290 hp and 260 lb-ft.
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel First Drive

Seems to indicate the CRD will be slower than the Hemi but faster than the Pentastar.
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  #246  
Old 02-26-2013, 10:08 PM
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Re: Diesel People - Enlighten Me? (2014)

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Originally Posted by wapshuffle View Post
Does the urea injection system not mean that less EGR will be required and therefore less carbon buildup on the intake track and turbo? Better mileage too?
that is the expectation. in the MB diesel the DPF regeneration is done by injecting fuel post-combustion. Using urea instead is reportedly a more efficient method of incinerating the soot collected in the DPF, and cuts fuel consumption. I would expect better mileage as a result.
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  #247  
Old 02-26-2013, 10:51 PM
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Re: Diesel People - Enlighten Me? (2014)

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Originally Posted by TroyD View Post
Less powerful in which way? It has the same towing capacity as the Hemi and is just as quick. Sure it doesn't have as many horses, but the ones it does have will pull anything the Hemi can, and with less effort and fuel.

Um, I guess I'm going with the horsePOWER number. The pentastar has about the same towing rating as the others too, so?

I do agree with you, if towing, diesels are nice. But I don't.

Just as quick? right.

0-60 is a worthless metric. For sports cars I use 0-150, but 50-150 is better, but hard to replicate. For SUV's, I don't care. 0-100 seems to make sense though. I know damn well the hemi will pass better than a CRD with me driving and having the gear chosen ahead of time.

The 0-60 times are terribly effected by the transmission, AWD system. All that matters to me is passing power at 50-70mph. That's just me, right?

The CRD 0-60 time posted I saw (7.77) are with brake drop from 2k RPM (who does that in real life with an SUV???). I don't think that's the typical way to test 0-60 times, is it?

Did I mention $10K? It's too bad, the price. Oh, and that gets you the electric power steering too, no?
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  #248  
Old 02-26-2013, 11:14 PM
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Re: Diesel People - Enlighten Me? (2014)

You do know that horsepower is a function of rpm x torque?
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  #249  
Old 02-27-2013, 12:25 AM
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Re: Diesel People - Enlighten Me? (2014)

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Originally Posted by zlartibartfast View Post
that is the expectation. in the MB diesel the DPF regeneration is done by injecting fuel post-combustion. Using urea instead is reportedly a more efficient method of incinerating the soot collected in the DPF, and cuts fuel consumption. I would expect better mileage as a result.
I was under the impression that urea injection in conjuction with SCR was for NOx reduction,not soot reduction?
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  #250  
Old 02-27-2013, 01:51 AM
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Re: Diesel People - Enlighten Me? (2014)

In our part of the world, the price for diesel and gasoline (petrol as we call it) is largely determined by the Singapore Benchmark Price. The diesel/gasoline relativity varies depending on varying demand in the Asia-Pacific Region. Traditionally diesel has been significantly more expensive than gasoline and of course the engines cost more. Even with considerably better fuel consumption, the pay-back period for a diesel engine has been in the order of 20-30 years. However, wonders will happen. Today I noticed that some pumps where showing diesel actually cheaper than gasoline. I hope this is not just some short term aberration. If it is going to stay, we CRD owners might one day have the pleasure of saying, "Suck on this, Hemi owners!" Somehow, I don't think that will ever happen but we live in hope.
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  #251  
Old 02-27-2013, 08:17 AM
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Re: Diesel People - Enlighten Me? (2014)

Quote:
Originally Posted by comnjeep View Post
Um, I guess I'm going with the horsePOWER number. The pentastar has about the same towing rating as the others too, so?

I do agree with you, if towing, diesels are nice. But I don't.

Just as quick? right.

0-60 is a worthless metric. For sports cars I use 0-150, but 50-150 is better, but hard to replicate. For SUV's, I don't care. 0-100 seems to make sense though. I know damn well the hemi will pass better than a CRD with me driving and having the gear chosen ahead of time.

The 0-60 times are terribly effected by the transmission, AWD system. All that matters to me is passing power at 50-70mph. That's just me, right?

The CRD 0-60 time posted I saw (7.77) are with brake drop from 2k RPM (who does that in real life with an SUV???). I don't think that's the typical way to test 0-60 times, is it?

Did I mention $10K? It's too bad, the price. Oh, and that gets you the electric power steering too, no?
Pentastar towing is 6200 lbs and CRD and Hemi are 7400 lbs. Where do you get $10k? The upcharge on the CRD from base is about $4000 invoice... Not sure how the CRD will feel passing at 50-70 but that will be a good test, especially as compared to the Pentastar. I'm hoping that 7.77 second 0-60 is beaten by further trials... I also want to see the Pentastar 0-60 with the new transmission to compare though.

Remember that I, for one, am comparing the CRD to the Pentastar primarily and the Hemi secondarily. I would never buy a Hemi as though the power and growl of that beast is very attractive the gas mileage turns me off completely. I want the CRD to beat the Pentastar in 0-60, mileage, towing, and general driveability... if it does that then I am sold on it.
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  #252  
Old 02-27-2013, 09:36 AM
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Re: Diesel People - Enlighten Me? (2014)

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Originally Posted by wapshuffle View Post
I was under the impression that urea injection in conjuction with SCR was for NOx reduction,not soot reduction?
the soot reduction process (incineration in the DPF) increases NOX emissions during the regen cycle. Urea injection keeps NOX at a minimum while that's going on. My '07 CRD doesn't use Urea, and also did not meet 50 state emissions standard when it was on the market.

I found some interesting data with a quick google search

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehicles...ams_2011_p.pdf
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