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Diesel People - Enlighten Me? (2014)

44K views 276 replies 62 participants last post by  SNUKE 
#1 ·
First, sorry about posting this as a new thread... tried the search function but didn't find an answer.

With the 2014 coming out, I was hoping some diesel people could post about the pros and cons of a diesel for daily use. I know very little about diesel engines and have never driven one, and I'm currently trying to decide between the 3 available engines.

I live in Colorado and my daily commute involves about 60 miles round trip. My family and closest friends are in Chicagoland, with a few scattered throughout the country, so I usually do at least 1, sometimes 2, long roadtrips each year. I will also be using the GC on forest service roads and the Colorado backcountry to get out to good hikes, climbs, camping, snowboarding, etc, though I won't be doing anything near as crazy as I've done with my JK (trading it).

I've considered all three engines. The V6 with the 8-speed may provide enough power, and certainly gets good MPG. The Hemi, well it's a Hemi, and it sounds like the power the on highway would be great, the torque offroad would be good, and the MPGs aren't too bad.

Now the diesel sounds like the perfect mix. Good power on the highway, great torque offroad (I don't own any toys to tow), and great MPGs. However, I am completely ignorant of diesels, so some practical questions:

How PITA is the who urea thing?

It gets cold here sometimes. Will a diesel engine with remote start actually warm up in my driveway? Is warming up a diesel engine before driving any different than a gas engine?

Does that black smoke happen with all diesels? My experience with diesel is always some dude in a F-350 blowing thick clouds of black smoke down the entrance ramp. I would be mortified if my vehicle did that. I'm all for rugged but I have a suit-wearing job and black clouds of smoke would be unacceptable to me.

Are there any other weird quirks to owning a diesel? Diesel intrigues me, but I'm at a point in life where I'd rather pay someone else to work on my vehicles. I just want something that gets me to work in comfort and style, gets me roadtrips without breaking the bank on gas, gets me down a forest service road without complaint, and does well at altitude.

I'm hoping that modern diesels are mostly behind the scenes, as in the experience of driving one isn't much different than driving a gasoline vehicle, except with gobs and gobs of torque.

So basically, what's it like day to day driving a diesel that's different than a gasoline engine?

Thanks!
 
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#206 ·
Some speculate that the fuel pump issues on US VWs may be related to our ULSD fuel here being not quite as good as in Europe and elsewhere. Supposedly lower lubricity which kills the pump.

That being said, no fuel pump issues with ours or the 5 other people we personally know. I think forums and the internet in general greatly magnifies a low percentage issue.

We do save our fuel receipts however, just in case...
 
#207 ·
Are we sure it's diesel at all related to HPFPs? BMW has this issue in their gas engines since 2008. They have a special high mileage warranty on them because of it (or the gossip on the internet)...

I reckon "high pressure" may be the issue, not what is high pressured.

Doesn't 8 injections per rev mean 8 times the wear? I'm not sure the "diesels last forever" statement can be used for modern diesels that have been out for 2 years. Direct injection in general is great on paper... I just don't know.

I wish engine life mattered anymore, but frankly, I don't think cars can be maintained anymore past about 12 years. It just isn't cost effective. What's my point? Not sure. Just thinking about cars and life and stuff...
 
#208 ·
Most problems occurring in the HPFP´s are related to Biodiesel, since it dissolves some of the gaskets and O-rings. However, no issue in germany.

8 Injections mean "pulsed" injections, so its basically one injection elecronically divided in multiple fractions.

Diesels are no more "forever", since nowadays you expect the same or higher performance than in gas engines, means more stress on all components.

The "forever" engines had a pretty low performance combined with a large displacement and distributor pump controlled injection. pretty slow, too. However its not uncommon for modern engines to last much more than 200k miles, proper maintanance provided.

Happy Day

Achim
 
#209 ·
#210 ·
After reviewing many of the posts here, it is clear that quite a few of you are groping in the dark in regards to the CRD.
Longevity? Forget it. These are not old Jimmy two-strokes. As many have posted or speculated, high pressure fuel delivery is far from being mastered, especially on the light duty engines. Tier 4 and diesel really do not belong in the same sentence. I see it every day in the heavy construction equipment end.
Back in '07, I had to have the MB CDI, and that is the reason I bought it. On paper, it really makes no sense when you do the math. The payoff is so far down the road, it is really difficult to justify past the "gotta have it" want. I have read some issues with the CDI now that they are several years old and have mileage on them.
Same is true with the '08 6.4 Power Stroke I had. Known for fuel rail issues that require the cab to be removed to change.
I think it is great that Jeep is offering this option, but, between the premium and the lack of true technical support at the local dealer level, it is a gamble I would probably pass on.
 
#213 ·
Hello to all Members, I am on the fence about the CRD or a V6 I would like the CRD for mileage, do not tow or really have any long trips. But what I would like to know from all members that will be getting the CRD what diesel brand would you consider and think if one is better than the other, I had a VW diesel traded it in since all the problems with the diesel here. I believe the Jeep CRD has same fuel pump as VW, any info would be appreciated, I just may go back to CRD dealing with a salesman who calls me whenever he finds info out. Thanks to all
 
#214 ·
wow what a thread - I haven't read it all I'll have to go back ... later ....
you should know I own 2 diesels; an 09 VW TDI and an 07 WK CRD. I am biased - I think each one is best in class.

I can speak from experience about the high pressure fuel pump. The VW's pump blew up, and it was repaired under warranty. My fuel was tested and found to contain 5% biodiesel, which is what is sold at the pump in my town. The new HPFP is working better than the old one, and I'm confident that the defect(s) that existed in the early model have been corrected. This same pump was used in Audi and BMW, and they had a similar failure rate. That kind of thing happens with new designs, and hopefully one's warranty will cover it, as mine did.

In my CRD, the HPFP is running at a lower pressure (about 25K PSI vs 29 PSI in the VW), and there haven't been any problems. There have been other issues with things like glow-plugs, & intake assemblies, & swirl motors, & other stuff, just like any vehicle will have.

Which brings me to the real point, as voiced by others in this forum - you need to check out your service options before you buy.

A lot Chrysler dealers never even knew my MB 3L diesel was a factory option, but I'm fortunate that my local dealer is not one of them. (When I tell them my engine is burning oil, they give me thumbs up)

It remains to be seen how Chrysler will support the VM Motori engine in the US 'cause overall, they blew it with the Benz diesel.

Hopefully your dealer will NOT quote you on the cost of replacement spark plugs!
 
#218 ·
I too want the CRD GC. When is it coming to the San Francisco area?

BTW, the other day I test drove the Diesel Porsche Cayenne. A nice car, but nowhere near as off-road capable as the GC. The Diesel Cayenne uses Mobil 1 0W-40 oil, with recommended changes very 10K miles.That's the first I'd heard of 0W oil!
 
#225 · (Edited)
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#226 ·
Looks like urea is a definite for the US. Bummer! I hope it never gets down here.
 
#229 ·
Aussie friends, thoughts on 0-60 times of the CRD vs the V6? Any trials you are aware of that show how the match up? I know the new 8sp should provide an improvement for both. But I am curious if the 2013s are similar or if the v6 beats the CRD?
 
#231 ·
Urea
Add costs to service fees
Boy of boy am i sick of added costs
We have the governments hands in our pockets on a daily basis
Don't wont more costs
 
#232 ·
Eh. The local chain big box home improvement store here started carrying DEF for $9 us for 2.5 gal jug. With the 8gal urea tank good for 10,000 miles, I think I can handle $27 and 5 minutes every 9 months or so.
 
#234 ·
Here in australia that would equate to about $100.00 plus
Based on what you guys for fuel and vehicles
 
#237 ·
they said $56K, right?

I got my 2012 in 2011 for 41 from list of 46. I don't see that happening with the diesel.... So that's at least a $10K premium for a less powerful engine (oh, and audi LED's). Man, I like good MPG, but that's tough dough, and a LOT of gas... Just sayin'...
 
#238 · (Edited)
That was a summit.

Personally, I don't think the performance is bad at all for a 5600 lb vehicle. In the limited trim with lux, the premium is not nearly as much.
 
#245 ·
From an autoblog review...

Opting for the diesel won't bring any compromises in utility, either. Both the V8 and EcoDiesel models can tow up to 7,400 pounds (four-wheel drive drops all ratings by 200 lbs, and the the V6 manages up to 6,200), and while acceleration from the oil-burner may not match that of the Hemi and its 360 hp and 390 lb-ft, it's certainly no slouch. It's also worth mentioning that the base gasoline V6 engine is perfectly adequate as well, with the eight-speed making the most of the Pentastar's 290 hp and 260 lb-ft.
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel First Drive

Seems to indicate the CRD will be slower than the Hemi but faster than the Pentastar.
 
#250 · (Edited)
In our part of the world, the price for diesel and gasoline (petrol as we call it) is largely determined by the Singapore Benchmark Price. The diesel/gasoline relativity varies depending on varying demand in the Asia-Pacific Region. Traditionally diesel has been significantly more expensive than gasoline and of course the engines cost more. Even with considerably better fuel consumption, the pay-back period for a diesel engine has been in the order of 20-30 years. However, wonders will happen. Today I noticed that some pumps where showing diesel actually cheaper than gasoline. I hope this is not just some short term aberration. If it is going to stay, we CRD owners might one day have the pleasure of saying, "Suck on this, Hemi owners!" ;) Somehow, I don't think that will ever happen but we live in hope.
 
#254 ·
The diesel that we in Australia have had access to for years is so far ahead of the other two petrols its simply no contest.
I think you are living in the stone age buy hanging on to out dated petrol vehicles
 
#256 ·
I think all these diesel haters might need some drive time in a new diesel. My 2011 cummins has less hp than the hemi, weighs almost twice as much, but has 800ft lbs of torque. Economy sucks at 14mpg, but remove the restricting stuff and it'll get better mpg than the hemi. And this truck hauls, can tow 22000lbs, and does 0-60 in 9. And throws your head back well past 100mph. Oh and if you chained one to each side of hemi you could probably rip one in half. There is a lot to be said for the torque numbers, can't wait to see people's reaction to this new baby diesel.
 
#257 ·
The more I read about modern US EPA diesels the more I think my hemi is "simple" and elegant.

I didn't realize the V6 towed only 6K #... Sorry.

As for the cost, I thought I saw a new Summit CRD was going to go for 56K or so.. My 2012 hemi is an overland so knock off about 4K or so for the difference of overland to summit?? OK, that's 52K. I paid 41 for mine, so that would be 10K more for what? For the CRD (and 8sp tranny, I guess, (but I don't want that either)).. I got my hemi for 5K off MSPR, I doubt a summit CRD will be discounted soon. That's how I got 10K$ difference.


. These posts are a bit silly. My C6Z06 doesn't "throw your head back" past 100mph.. And yes, I've raced yahoos in their super diesel trucks at their insistence.. But my car only goes up to 200mph, so we have to stop. And I can tell you, my emissions at least LOOK and smell a lot cleaner. ; )

I don't hate diesel, I just don't think they make sense for me in the US given fuel prices and EPA rules in 2013. There's really a ton of reasons, and this thread is helping to slowly show them to us. Slowly.

I guess I'm still in the stone age... Buy buy.
 
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