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  #13  
Old 04-18-2013, 08:41 PM
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Re: To diesel or not to diesel

The first time I pulled into a gas station and there was no diesel I would shoot the jeep. I am sure its everywhere nowadays, but "dealing" with diesel is one of the biggest reasons I wouldn't choose that engine.
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Old 04-18-2013, 08:48 PM
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Re: To diesel or not to diesel

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Originally Posted by JWS360 View Post
Exactly.

What about a comparison to the V6? A $4500 premium over the V6 & diesel fuel often 20% or so more expensive then gas? How long will that take to amortize?

If the V6 4WD averages, say 22 and the diesel say, 26, we have a roughly 15% improvement. If diesel costs 15% more then when, exactly, is the breakeven?
Thanks, my brain is now about to explode.
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  #15  
Old 04-18-2013, 08:51 PM
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Re: To diesel or not to diesel

On the plus side, banks is already working on chips for that engine... says they can get 600 HP out of it.... now that would be worth it.
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  #16  
Old 04-18-2013, 08:56 PM
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Re: To diesel or not to diesel

One likely reason that payoff comparisons may tilt toward contrasting the CRD with the V8 is that they are more likely to be the two combinations in contention because of the equal towing capability, etc. I bought my MY12 V8 because I wanted/needed that capacity and if I were buying a MY14 right now, I'd be seriously considering the CRD for the better mileage during normal driving while still being capable of my other needs that involve a horse trailer. I do put on a lot of mile due to business travel! And there is a much smaller delta in cost between the V8 and the CRD than there would be for the V6 and the CRD. For someone buying CRD strictly for fuel economy, it's going to be a tough row to hoe to justify the big jump in vehicle cost.

Of course, none of the money things matter for someone who wants the CDR because it's a CRD.
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  #17  
Old 04-18-2013, 09:09 PM
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Re: To diesel or not to diesel

I suspect there will be a lot of CRD WK2s alongside Priuses in 90210. Since you have to upgrade to at least a Limited that is a double hit for those who think more form follows function than GALB. Plus lotsa chrome.
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  #18  
Old 04-18-2013, 09:13 PM
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Re: To diesel or not to diesel

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWS360 View Post
Exactly.

What about a comparison to the V6? A $4500 premium over the V6 & diesel fuel often 20% or so more expensive then gas? How long will that take to amortize?

If the V6 4WD averages, say 22 and the diesel say, 26, we have a roughly 15% improvement. If diesel costs 15% more then when, exactly, is the breakeven?

I did the calculations long long ago before I settled on the V6 gas. it will take you a healthy 7-9 years depending on the number of miles driven (10-15,000 miles per year). And that was done factoring an average of 25-50 cents difference and a perpetual 25 cent per year increase in average fuel prices. And it is not just 4000 dollars - it is also the added cost of the Lux II package on the Limited (or the Advanced Tech Pkg on the Overland) that you have to incur. So it truly becomes approximately a 7000 dollar difference (6670 $/invoice; since Lux II will only cost $2670 with the diesel engine) which will NOT be overcome over the realistic lifetime of the vehicle.

So if you do not want ventilated seats and upgraded leather and a few other little creature comfort stuff and you are simply hoping for better "dynamics" - be prepared to spend. Don't buy it for the fuel economy - most people are lured into a FALSE sense of over-achievement with this fuel economy on the diesel but it is only relative to the HEMI not relative to the V6. To each their own. For me and my needs, the V6 was fine as I do not have anything to tow.

take a look here:

INPUT DATA
0.25 $/gal steady annual increase - which represents the annual rate for fuel prices in Chicagoland over the past 10 years
0.50 $ average price difference between diesel and gasoline fuels in Chicagoland over the past 10 years (less during summer, more in winter)
7500 city miles / year
5000 highway miles / year
diesel fuel economy 21 city; 28 hwy
V6 gas fuel economy 17 city; 24 hwy

No matter how you tweak the fuel economy values or the number of miles driven, the diesel option doesn't pay for itself against the V6 gas engine. Yes, it will be different against the V8 but not spectacular.

Looking at the screenshot that I attached: by 2022, having driven some 125,000 miles (of which 50,000 highway and 75,000 city), living in Chicago, a driver is projected to have paid 3,040 dollars MORE having driven a Limited V6 JGC over a diesel-powered Limited JGC. The price difference between cars, on the engine choice alone, is invoiced at 4000 dollars. Assume now that you did not want Luxury II (see below in quotes), a 3560 dollar option. All of a sudden the price difference between cars of nearly 7000 dollars will be...covered in 20 years. And really who keeps a car these days 20 years ? All of these people who want to keep the diesel a long time are kidding themselves. The new CAFE-teria standards will impact the lifespan of most vehicles on the road today.

Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="636"><colgroup><col style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:20736;width:477pt" width="636"> </colgroup><tbody><tr style="height:15.05pt" height="20"> <td class="xl63" style="height:15.05pt;width:477pt" height="20" width="636">D. LUXURY GROUP II (AHN) (MSRP $4,000 / INV. $ 3,560) with EXF: (MSRP $3,000 / INV. $ 2,670)</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.05pt" height="20"> <td class="xl64" style="height:15.05pt" height="20">8.4" TOUCH SCREEN DISPLAY (RFL)</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.05pt" height="20"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.05pt" height="20">AUTO HIGH BEAM HEADLAMP CONTROL (LMS)</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.05pt" height="20"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.05pt" height="20">AUTOMATIC HEADLAMP LEVELING SYSTEM (JKJ)</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.05pt" height="20"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.05pt" height="20">BI-XENON HID HEADLAMPS (LM2)</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.05pt" height="20"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.05pt" height="20">DUAL-PANE PANORAMIC SUNROOF (GWJ)</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.05pt" height="20"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.05pt" height="20">NAPPA LEATHER TRIM SEATS W/PERF INSERTS (*DL)</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.05pt" height="20"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.05pt" height="20">LED DAYTIME RUNNING HEADLAMPS (LMZ)</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.05pt" height="20"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.05pt" height="20">POWER TILT/TELESCOPE STEERING COLUMN (SUB)</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.05pt" height="20"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.05pt" height="20">RAIN SENSITIVE WINDSHIELD WIPERS (JHC)</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.05pt" height="20"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.05pt" height="20">ROADSIDE ASSISTANCE AND 9-1-1 CALL (RSR)</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.05pt" height="20"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.05pt" height="20">UCONNECT 8.4A AM/FM/BT/ACCESS (RA3)</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.05pt" height="20"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.05pt" height="20">UCONNECT ACCESS ADVANTAGE (RS7)</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.05pt" height="20"> <td class="xl65" style="height:15.05pt" height="20">VENTILATED FRONT SEATS (CAJ)</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
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File Type: jpg V6diesel-vs-V6gas.JPG (123.2 KB, 19 views)
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  #19  
Old 04-18-2013, 09:14 PM
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Re: To diesel or not to diesel

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWS360 View Post
Exactly.

What about a comparison to the V6? A $4500 premium over the V6 & diesel fuel often 20% or so more expensive then gas? How long will that take to amortize?

If the V6 4WD averages, say 22 and the diesel say, 26, we have a roughly 15% improvement. If diesel costs 15% more then when, exactly, is the breakeven?
Except no one is paying MSRP. It's $4000 more, $3000 if you're going with a Lux II package. And you'll probably get at least half of that, if not more on resale of the truck. It's never that easy to figure out whether you'll make the best financial decision but when you're talking V6 vs. CRD, you are mostly talking about 2 different classes of vehicles. They *look* the same but I bet the performance characteristics are way different.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:30 PM
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Re: To diesel or not to diesel

And this is the diesel vs. the V8 (same scenario as above)

You break even in fuel costs by 2017 or close to 60,000 miles on the car. If you keep the car longer than that (in time or miles driven) obviously it makes sense.

Look the diesel makes sense for people that spend a long time driving, idling, and towing. Just don't buy it for perceived fuel economy when you live in a major metropolitan area and your only off-road adventure is when the wife hits the curb or there's 2 inches of snow on the ground and the kids wanna go to the snow tubing slope. All other reasons might be acceptable.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:33 PM
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The fuel economy of my 2012 crd is amazing but that was not the reason for buying it, it's full torque comes in at 1800 revs which makes it so much more enjoyable to drive over the other 2 petrol engines( test drove all 3) i regard the fuel economy as an added bonus.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:34 PM
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Re: To diesel or not to diesel

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Originally Posted by torifile View Post
Except no one is paying MSRP. It's $4000 more, $3000 if you're going with a Lux II package.
Technically it is incorrect. The diesel engine is 4000 dollars more. The discount is applied on the Luxury II package that you are forced to have (from $3560 to $2670). Stating it your way makes it seem that Lux II is optional with the diesel...which is not.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:36 PM
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Re: To diesel or not to diesel

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Originally Posted by f1anatic View Post
Technically it is incorrect. The diesel engine is 4000 dollars more. The discount is applied on the Luxury II package that you are forced to have (from $3560 to $2670). Stating it your way makes it seem that Lux II is optional with the diesel...which is not.
IMHO, it's not optional with either. If I'm not getting Lux II, why get the Limited at all? The Laredo E is just fine. But we need to talk apples-to-apples for comparison's sake.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:41 PM
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Re: To diesel or not to diesel

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Originally Posted by torifile View Post
IMHO, it's not optional with either. If I'm not getting Lux II, why get the Limited at all? The Laredo E is just fine. But we need to talk apples-to-apples for comparison's sake.
Here's a reason to get a Limited over a Laredo: Quadra Lift and the rest of ORA II goodies such as alleged enhanced cooling and alternator.

The darn car that I ordered and should have been here a week ago...had to be ordered with Lux II even though I did not want it. But I wanted the technology package - which is another thing that is a Limited (and trims above) option.
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