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  #25  
Old 04-18-2013, 09:51 PM
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Re: To diesel or not to diesel

Ultimately, here's the thing for me - I'm either leasing or financing. Leasing seems much more attractive given the numbers the DC group buy has put together. It's actually cheaper than buying, even if I were to buy at the end and finance the residual.

That said, the V6 would run me about $504/month. The V8 about $525. The CRD about $537.

The CRD will *definitely* save me $12/month in gas over the V8. Probably more like $50 - 75. It might save me $20 over the V6, meaning it's a little worse economically than the V6.

But would I pay $13/month for all that torque? Umm, yes, please.

When can I order?
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  #26  
Old 04-18-2013, 11:05 PM
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Re: To diesel or not to diesel

Its funny... I was reading a UK and AU website for jeeps and it appears there they price the CRD between the V6 and the V8... so I imagine that Chrysler is either charging extra for the first year or two of warranty claims that they might see coming, or they know that we (North Americans) are enamored with the idea of a Diesel.. either way, seems very weird. I would buy the Diesel in a heartbeat regardless of price if I had a good reason. I don't but others obviously will.
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Old 04-18-2013, 11:07 PM
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Re: To diesel or not to diesel

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile View Post
Ultimately, here's the thing for me - I'm either leasing or financing. Leasing seems much more attractive given the numbers the DC group buy has put together. It's actually cheaper than buying, even if I were to buy at the end and finance the residual.

That said, the V6 would run me about $504/month. The V8 about $525. The CRD about $537.

The CRD will *definitely* save me $12/month in gas over the V8. Probably more like $50 - 75. It might save me $20 over the V6, meaning it's a little worse economically than the V6.

But would I pay $13/month for all that torque? Umm, yes, please.

When can I order?
Which model are you going with (Limited, Overland, etc)?
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  #28  
Old 04-18-2013, 11:18 PM
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Re: To diesel or not to diesel

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Originally Posted by Copefree View Post
Which model are you going with (Limited, Overland, etc)?
Limited.

In all my calculations, the most important factor is the selling price. Negotiate a good deal and the other things make very little difference to the monthly cost.
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  #29  
Old 04-18-2013, 11:25 PM
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Re: To diesel or not to diesel

If you can afford to pay $50k for a vehicle fuel cost should be the last thing you shop for.

Go drive all three vehicles for more than a few miles.... then decide which one you want based on which one you like the most.
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  #30  
Old 04-18-2013, 11:30 PM
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Re: To diesel or not to diesel

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Originally Posted by f1anatic View Post
And this is the diesel vs. the V8 (same scenario as above)

You break even in fuel costs by 2017 or close to 60,000 miles on the car. If you keep the car longer than that (in time or miles driven) obviously it makes sense.
Once again, there are two ways to read the graph you posted.

Let's say you are financing the Jeep and the CRD costs an additional $40-$50/month extra due to its higher price - without considering the CRD's higher residual which cuts the effective difference in price even further. On a lease, you probably won't have to come up with that much $$ extra.

Looking at your data, the CRD saves you $707 on fuel in the first year at current prices. That equals a saving of about $60/month right from the start.

So under these circumstances, I don't quite understand the logic behind the claim that it is going to take years to "break even". For the majority of buyers (and the majority these days is not paying cash), there won't be such a "waiting period".
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  #31  
Old 04-18-2013, 11:36 PM
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Re: To diesel or not to diesel

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Originally Posted by Jeff_Jeske View Post
If you can afford to pay $50k for a vehicle fuel cost should be the last thing you shop for.


Having a great fuel economy is not only an economical factor. Being able to drive about 700 miles without filling up is also a convenience feature.

I certainly enjoyed my 2006 BMW M5 - but even when driven conservatively, I had to fill it up every 200 miles. I certainly could have lived without that.
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  #32  
Old 04-18-2013, 11:38 PM
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Re: To diesel or not to diesel

For me, it's also about conservation. I'm actually quite the liberal, bleeding heart. I compost, recycle everything I can, etc, yada yada. But I need the capabilities of the truck, too. Where else am I going to go to reduce my consumption while also getting the benefits of a truck like the JGC?
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  #33  
Old 04-19-2013, 12:39 AM
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Re: To diesel or not to diesel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_Jeske View Post
If you can afford to pay $50k for a vehicle fuel cost should be the last thing you shop for.

Go drive all three vehicles for more than a few miles.... then decide which one you want based on which one you like the most.
Bingo.

We've been over this all a few times.

V6 versus CRD, you will never *really* close the gap on the $4k investment + extra fuel costs.

However, you are not necessarily buying a CRD as an investment (if you want to look at a "return" on a vehicle, I suggest you buy something old, clean it up, and never ever drive it). You are buying a CRD for the performance of the V8 at the operational cost of the V6.

I did the mathes as well.

Atleast here in my part of Seattle, the V6 will run me (at current fuel prices) $2,637.10 to run. The CRD will run me $2,687.50 to run. Compared to the Hemi which would run me $3,185.06 (or about $120 more per year then my current V6).

So, if I wanted to save the most cash and invest the smallest amount, I'd buy the V6. It costs less to buy and costs less to run.

However, I love the pure brute strength of the CRD (especially under tow and in the mountains), and love the range it will give me.

Again, it will all come down to "What do you want to do?" and "Which engine do you like best?"

Anyone that looks at a car for a return on investment is a bit touched in the head. Same with people that compare 0-60 times on an SUV.

If you want a car that will give you a good ROI and can go fast on a 0-60 basis, I suggest you look into a 1954-1957 Mercedes 300 SL. Provided you can get it home without it killing you in the process, you will have made a fine investment.
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  #34  
Old 04-19-2013, 03:38 AM
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Re: To diesel or not to diesel

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Originally Posted by TitanFlyer View Post
Its funny... I was reading a UK and AU website for jeeps and it appears there they price the CRD between the V6 and the V8... so I imagine that Chrysler is either charging extra for the first year or two of warranty claims that they might see coming, or they know that we (North Americans) are enamored with the idea of a Diesel.. either way, seems very weird. I would buy the Diesel in a heartbeat regardless of price if I had a good reason. I don't but others obviously will.
I wouldn't read anything into this pricing policy - firstly, Jeep hasn't a clue about how to price vehicles (at least in the UK) and so a vehicle with a MRSP of $70K in the UK (JGC Overland CRD) won't be sold for more that $59K anyway, and I just picked up a 6-month old NEW CRD Overland with 20 miles on the clock for $51K. Secondly, market pricing dictates different pricing models internationally - typically cars are priced as base specs and the options add thousands to the price (ever looked at buying a BMW/Audi/Mercedes ?). Jeep, like Kia, take a different approach -you have the option of only 2-3 model variants and no options. So we can either buy a CRD Limited (with 2 option packs), CRD Overland or SRT. Period. The SRT incidentally sells for about $95,000 in the UK, and depreciates to about $45K within the first year - even the Jeep dealers don't touch them. So consquently they are as rare as rocking-horse droppings. And thirdly, Jeep don't have the best reputation here in the UK (and in fact very few American cars do - American brands are seen as the bottom of the pile generally, even below the Korean & French brands, and although Jeep fares a little better than most American brands over here they are still lacking in customer support & brand - hence the massive depreciation !).

It is true, however, that diesels in the international market are much more sought after than Petrol, especially in automatic transmission guise. They hold their value better, they consume less fuel (diesel is about $0.10/litre more expensive than petrol but we are still paying over $2.25 per litre in the UK) and they are less polluting for Co2 - and here in the UK we get taxed annually based on CO2 emissions. Therefore the tax on my Diesel GC is half that of the petrol (about $750 per year).

I have just bought the Diesel WK2, my first diesel (I have to admit I am a petrolhead) and have to say I'm pretty impressed with it. Its quiet, accelerates well, gas mileage is averaging about 25-26MPG (35-38MPG on the highway) and it runs roughly 500 miles on a full tank. I've posted some additional comments on the "Is the Diesel Really worth it" thread but i've re-posted below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by d8smt View Post
OK, so I picked up my new 3.0 CRD Overland last Friday (2013 MY) & have been playing with it all weekend. It's my FIRST EVER diesel (I have previously subscribed to the "fuel of the devil" argument.....) and I have a V8 Cobra sitting in the garage waiting for some sunshine to arrive so I wasn't expecting much from it.
But I have to say, I am really quite impressed with the diesel. No, honestly. I know it's a bit like coming out of the closet, but it's quiet (I know ! A diesel ! and it's quiet !! WTF ??), got loads of torque & power when you need it, smooth acceleration, and not bad mileage to boot (about 18-20MPG (UK) in heavy town traffic, 34-38MPG on the motorway, average for last 200 miles was 26 MPG all types) - and no spark plugs to change! I think I may be converting to the advantages of the diesel lobby. Resale values of diesels in the UK are also typically 20-30% higher than those of petrol/gas too, they also tend to last much longer than petrol engines over here.
For those of you thinking of looking at the diesel in the US, who are unsure and are used to your "loads of grunt" petrol V6s/V8s, then I would say take a closer look based on my experience this weekend - and trust me, I am a real petrol-head. Obviously you will need to work out running costs/resale values on the lifetime of the vehicle, but I would definitely recommend at least trying one.
Feel free to msg me if you want any further info, i've had the car just over a week & done about 500 miles in it so far so can give you initial impressions.

Dave
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  #35  
Old 04-19-2013, 08:41 AM
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Re: To diesel or not to diesel

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Originally Posted by Temerarius View Post
Bingo.

We've been over this all a few times.

V6 versus CRD, you will never *really* close the gap on the $4k investment + extra fuel costs.
Why not, you forget that you will eventually sell the Jeep too. How about closing that gap when you include a higher resale value.
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  #36  
Old 04-19-2013, 09:30 AM
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Re: To diesel or not to diesel

Sounds like you (the original poster) want a CRD to me ... Just wait and order one. It's amazing to me how heated these debates get ... Everyone is just fearful of being "wrong." It's also amazing how generally the only heated debates about "is it worth it?" occur around engines because it's easier to figure out costs to drive etc. Most of the time you never hear "is leather worth it? Will I make money back?" People generally just decide "I want leather ... I like it ... I'm getting leather." Sure we consider the cost but it's less of a mathmatically decided choice.

I am going for diesel due to the fuel economy especially on the highway. I like the idea of using less fuel in general. I will feel less guilty loading up the dogs and taking a 500 mile road trip knowing I'm burning a bit less fuel. I like that overall diesel is cleaner and needs less refining. I like the idea of supporting diesel technology in the USA. I like the idea of having towing power if I need it and that I get a lot of torque with better fuel economy than the V-6 gas engine. Yes it's costing me more but that feels worth it to me. Yes I'm "forced" to get the Advanced Tech Package but I was leaning toward ordering that anyhow.

Maybe I'll have regrets but I do look forward to sharing my opinion after some months of ownership. Good luck deciding! We generally find the rationale to fit what we really want to hear anyway
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