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Old 04-05-2013, 09:55 PM
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Using Biodiesel

The literature on the diesel is kind of confusing. Will using B20 void the warranty?

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First the link states -

"A maximum blend of 5% biodiesel meeting ASTM specification D975 is recommended. If frequent operation with biodiesel blends greater than 5% but not greater than 20% (B6 to B20) is desired, a shorter interval maintenance schedule is used:
Oil change at 10,000 miles (B5 biodiesel fuel) Oil change at 8,000 miles (B20 biodiesel fuel)"

Later it's stated -

"Ultra-low sulfur diesel (ULSD) required
B5 (5% maximum biodiesel approved)"

So recommended is B5 but it sounds like up to B20 is allowable as long as you change the oil more frequently according to the first quote. The second quote makes it sound maximum approved is B5.

Confused ...
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Old 04-06-2013, 03:10 PM
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I'm a diesel newbie. Where do I find this B number, is I right on the pump?
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:06 PM
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Re: Using Biodiesel

Retail Map - Biodiesel.org

There is a link to locations near you. It also tells you which they carry. More often than not these days it's B20. There are not many providers ... At least not as many as there should be.

Biodiesel basics - Biodiesel Basics - Biodiesel.org
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Old 04-06-2013, 11:54 PM
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Re: Using Biodiesel

As I said in another thread:

They are saying running up to B5 will be fine, but when you start hitting B20 you will need to start taking into account the need to change/monitor your oil often.

Failing to do so could have rather unpleasant consequences for your engine (and thusly... warranty)

I can go into the gory details of why if you want.
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Old 04-07-2013, 12:52 PM
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Re: Using Biodiesel

So it doesn't automatically void the warranty to use B20 but a guy should keep a close eye on the oil level and change at 8,000 miles ... I just want to know if they technically allow B20 and it doesn't automatically void the warranty. There's no B5 around here but generally only B20.
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Old 04-07-2013, 02:02 PM
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Re: Using Biodiesel

Well... short of draining your tank and testing... there's no way for them to know...

The Computer may have some info, (as Bio has a lower flashpoint, and thus, less energy) but, that's about it.

Otherwise, they will know if you go into Hydrolock.

The dealer may note that you have extra crankcase oil when you change it, but, that would happen if you have any B value fuel (which, most stations around here are running atleast B5).
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Old 04-07-2013, 03:59 PM
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Re: Using Biodiesel

Correction, biodiesel has a higher flashpoint (temperature at which it ignites).

The "less energy" can mean a couple things. The calorific energy density of biodiesel is lower than petrol. But it can also refer to the amount of useable energy extracted by the engine, which is a function of efficiency of combustion.

[rant] There are claims in both directions about how biodiesel performs on this front. A lot depends on engine design, which are presently optimized toward petrodiesel. Fuel sensors and adaptive tuning are in the development pipeline, but for now, the focus seems to be on fleet shipping trucks. Meanwhile, consumer vehicles will continue down the path of lower complexity/cost/flexibility. [/rant]

Anyway, the cold comfort is no fuel-sensor forensic trail to bite you during the maintenance nightmare that will result if you fail to follow the guidance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Temerarius View Post
Well... short of draining your tank and testing... there's no way for them to know...

The Computer may have some info, (as Bio has a lower flashpoint, and thus, less energy) but, that's about it.
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:37 PM
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Re: Using Biodiesel

Quote:
Originally Posted by horsewidower View Post
Correction, biodiesel has a higher flashpoint (temperature at which it ignites).
Doh... right.

Meant Higher. :P

Basically, it is injected post combustion and if it was normal diesel, it would ignite in the system, but as it's Bio and has the higher flashpoint, just sticks to the cylinder wall/piston and will make it's way into the crankcase oil as a result (bad juju occurs at this point).

If you fail to keep a close eye on your oil levels, you will eventually end up with too much oil. That will eventually end up with (if left uncorrected) in Hydrolock and thusly, bent rods (if you are lucky).

If you have access to cheap and plentiful CRD approved oil (low ash), you can run B100 in this thing. However, you will be changing your oil every few thousand miles (maybe a few thousand)...
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Old 04-08-2013, 06:53 PM
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Re: Using Biodiesel

Funny to hear all this about biodiesel. I ran b100 in my TDI (with a PD, not common rail, engine) and I never had issues with too much oil in the crankcase. I ran it for every season but winter when I switched to b20. Over 5 years and nearly 80k miles worth. Are the CRD and PD engines that different? I'd be interested to hear what TDI guys are doing since I believe they are now common rail diesels, correct?
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:06 PM
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Re: Using Biodiesel

I did some quick research and PD and CRD engines are quite different with respect to the way the fuel is injected. That said, I haven't read of any issues with hydrolock. Only issues with moisture from improper washing of the bd. I'll keep looking around.
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:41 AM
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Re: Using Biodiesel

Here ya go:

2007+ Diesel Emissions & Biodiesel; Not All That Rosy | Utah Biodiesel Supply Blog

I've had a couple TDI and CRD engines (in a VW and a Merc). And I ran B100 in them just fine and was ready to buy one of these little processors to make my own happy juice.

...right up until I read this article.

You could still run a higher B value diesel, but you will have to keep a close eye on your oil and change it often (unless the Jeep engine is rigged up differently, but I can't find much info on that front).
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Old 04-09-2013, 10:15 AM
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Re: Using Biodiesel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Temerarius View Post
Here ya go:

2007+ Diesel Emissions & Biodiesel; Not All That Rosy | Utah Biodiesel Supply Blog

I've had a couple TDI and CRD engines (in a VW and a Merc). And I ran B100 in them just fine and was ready to buy one of these little processors to make my own happy juice.

...right up until I read this article.

You could still run a higher B value diesel, but you will have to keep a close eye on your oil and change it often (unless the Jeep engine is rigged up differently, but I can't find much info on that front).
Ouch. Sounds harsh but also like there could be a solution in the future. For now, I'll be avoiding any biodiesel. I mean, when I finally get to actually drive my yet-to-be-ordered CRD.
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