Originally Posted by Conejo148
True, it takes about 650,000 miles to make up the $5k markup, given the average $.50 higher cost per gallon of diesel. Most vehicles fall apart before they hit 300k. But, if you figure on towing anything, say a 4,000 lb boat or trailer, the fuel economy of the V6 will be cut in about half, and the diesel may lose about 15%-20%, reducing the miles to about 200-250,000. The cost of maintenance will about offset. Still a lot of miles, but VW hit the nail on the head with the TDI series. And you can't hardly find someone willing to part with a low mile (under 150k) Jetta or Golf.
Correct, but how often do you tow a boat? 200K miles?
I have a 4500 Lb boat and will tow it with the V6 and I'm not that concerned. I tend to keep my boat on the water as much as possible
By the way for the math challenged here is the math.
You get 4 MPG (current estimated EPA for the diesel). Based on first reviews the estimate looks close.
Say $3.50 Reg, $4.00 Diesel
Say 24 MPG Reg, 28 MPG Diesel (Highway)
First we need to normalize the cost of fuel.
Easy 3.50/4.00 * 28 MPG = 24.5
This is the amount miles you get out of the amount of diesel that you could buy for the same price as gas per gallon.
Now you are down to 0.5 MPG savings over gas.
How many Gallons can you buy with $4500.00?
$4500.00/$3.50 = 1285 Gallons.
How many gallons do you have to use to save 1 gallon?
24 MPG / 0.5 MPG = 50 Gallons
How many gallons do you need to save for the added cost of the Diesel option, oh yeah, 1285 gallons. So that's 1285 gallons * 50.
You need to use 64250 Gallons to save 1285 Gallons at 0.5 MPG savings per gallon.
How many miles is that?
64250 Gallons * 24 MPG = 1,542,000 Miles.
When I said a million miles, I used $0.40 a gallon difference. It was you that suggested $0.50 difference. I've seen it as far as $1.00 spread.
The supply and demand drives the price to miles per dollar and they are currently very close to each other.
Granted the Diesel will likely do better. But the V6 does way better for some folks than EPA too. I've been getting 28 MPG on the highway. But that would be unfair to compare that to the EPA Est Diesel unless I owned one. But it would have to do 32 MPG Diesel Highway (for me) and it would still take ~1.2 million (I'm guessing don't feel like doing the math again) miles to break even !!!
That does not factor in urine. How much Urine do you need over 1.2 million miles? Noise, there is more noise, some like that noise. At least to the neighbors on a cold morning. Starting in extreme cold. Waiting for glow plugs in extreme cold. Finding Diesel stations.
If it got 34 MPG EPA, then it might start making sense. At 28 MPG it's almost non existent gain, I'm just saying economy wise.
Technical reasons, I guess so, but occasional boat towing, no, no way.
If your boat weighs more than 6200 Lbs do really want to use this little guy to tow it. I wouldn't on any regular basis.
I just did another quick calculation.
Urea. Sounds cheap. Let's get that down to per gallon.
I checked Amazon. $14.00 for 2.5 Gallons (that's dirt cheap). You'll probably pay a heck of lot more locally.
Takes 10 Gallons per 10,000 miles.
$56 every 10,000 miles.
5600 (cents) / 10000 miles = 0.56 Cents / mile
How much per gallon
0.56 (cents) * 28 MPG = 15.68 Cents Per Gallon for Urea.
Now add that to the Price of Diesel, now you're at $0.65 per gallon more.
Let's do just the first calc again
3.50 (Gas) / 4.15 (Diesel with Urea) * 28 MPG = 23.4 MPG equivalent. No need to go further you'll never catch up.
Let's guess at actual MPG
3.50 (Gas) / 4.15 (Diesel with Urea) * 32 MPG (Diesel Guess Highway Actual) = 27 MPG Equivalent
I'm getting 28 Actual.
Folks that get low 20's on Gas probably won't hit low 30's on Diesel, need to compare apples to apples.
And give me a break on the reliability thing with Diesel. I doubt many folks here will keep their SUV longer than 200K miles when the difference might kick in.
I've done NOTHING to my last two gas engines. Both well over 200K. Might have changed plugs ONCE on each. I changed oil at 7500 miles with synthetic. One was a Jeep another one a VW.
Here is a math question for you brilliant math guys.
How many MPG does diesel have to get Highway, to break even within 200K miles? If I'm getting 28 MPG on the Highway now with Gas? Don't forget Urea cost (use my dirt cheap price from amazon). And let's base it on $0.40 difference of Gas vs Diesel.