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  #25  
Old 01-11-2012, 06:27 PM
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Re: "Yeah, but diesel costs more..."

Several years ago I looked at buying a Class C motorhome on the Chevy Kodiak chassis. I looked at the cost of the Duramax diesel vs. the 496 cu. in gas V8. With the additional purchase price (about $10 grand, as I recall) and cost of diesel fuel, I figured it would be about 225,000 miles before I broke even with the diesel. And that's before figuring maintenance costs. Didn't really make much sense to me. And while noise levels are improving on the new diesels, I really don't like their clatter and rattle. Granted, the torque is great, if you really need it on a heavy vehicle. I decided on a lighter rig that didn't need it.
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:48 PM
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Re: "Yeah, but diesel costs more..."

I guess the other thing is.. in Australia an aweful lot of cars can be purchased in Diesel. Most people refer Diesel vehicles to trucks and heavy vehicles.. but in aus there are many cars like VW Golf Diesel, BMW 3 Series Diesels and other small hatchbacks with diesels.

Every petrol station in australia has both petrol and diesel, and most have higher octane petrol, but they all do have diesel. Petrol and Diesel is also the same price mostly (not including E10 ethanol additive petrol).

As for noise levels, alot of cars these days and even SUVs you wouldnt know it was a diesel because they are just as smooth and quiet.

For me it was a no-brain choice. Diesel provided more torque for towing, better fuel consumption, as fast as the Hemi V8. It also worked out to take about 75,000k's(50K ish miles) to recoup the extra cost at purchase, and the diesel should hold a bit better resale as well.
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  #27  
Old 01-11-2012, 08:35 PM
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Re: "Yeah, but diesel costs more..."

Well you all make some good points. It makes it a tougher to decide which one to get. I want the Hemi power and sound with the diesel fuel economy for the cost of the V6 LOL. Hummmmm
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:06 PM
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Re: "Yeah, but diesel costs more..."

It will really come down to the cost of the diesel. A lot of people will go for it if it's priced right. If it's a lot more than the Hemi...forget it. This is a country where a lot of people change cars every 3-4 years. I'm one of them and there would be no financial advantage in a situation where I'm not racking up a lot of miles. After doing a lot of research I also don't think the diesel is faster than the Hemi. It seems that the Hemi still has a 1/2 to 3/4 second advantage...and a cool name!

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Old 01-11-2012, 09:08 PM
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Re: "Yeah, but diesel costs more..."

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Originally Posted by CaptRB View Post
It will really come down to the cost of the diesel. A lot of people will go for it if it's priced right. If it's a lot more than the Hemi...forget it. This is a country where a lot of people change cars every 3-4 years. I'm one of them and there would be no financial advantage in a situation where I'm not racking up a lot of miles. After doing a lot of research I also don't think the diesel is faster than the Hemi. It seems that the Hemi still has a 1/2 to 3/4 second advantage...and a cool name!

Robert B
NY
More of an advantage than that. I have yet to see a diesel number lower than 8.1 seconds. So it is really V6 performance with V8 towing.
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  #30  
Old 01-11-2012, 09:13 PM
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Re: "Yeah, but diesel costs more..."

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Originally Posted by Knightrider03m View Post
Unless you are making your own diesel fuel, a diesel engine will cost more with the higher price for upkeep. I used to go to school with a guy that made his own fuel and it was only costing him under $1.50 per gallon.... and that was when gas was at $4.00 per gallon.
Same here dude! I went to college with a guy that made his own fuel.
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  #31  
Old 01-12-2012, 09:30 AM
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Re: "Yeah, but diesel costs more..."

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Originally Posted by jeep2011 View Post
It will save eventually over the LONG haul, but like most people they only think short term (your data). Just like hybrids your not going to save ANY money over a regular compact car due to the added cost of the hybrid technology.
^Yep. I just had this discussion with a friend who wanted to trade in his V8 Tahoe for a smaller fuel sipping SUV, a Hyundai Santa Fe. The smaller SUV or a Hybrid would be falling apart by the time the fuel savings catches up to the net purchase including the trade in allowance.

Now, if a diesel is only going to cost say $2000 more than the V6 and fuel prices escalate to $5/gallon, then the savings is more realistic. I'll add that I know someone who just spent $6500 for replacing the batteries in her Prius. So much for MPGs with that little maintenance fiasco.
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  #32  
Old 01-12-2012, 11:02 AM
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Re: "Yeah, but diesel costs more..."

You cannot "make your own fuel" with the new UL sulfer requirements. The fuel systems are so tweeked out for efficiency and emmissions, the home brew would destroy the system.
After reading a lot of the posts, I realize there are still a lot of misconceptions about modern diesels.
First, the days of longevity are OVER. These engines, with their new management systems, are run so lean, they can hardly "act" as diesel engines anymore.
In marine and industrial applications, there is a reason there are so many 6/71s still running. They are crude. They run hot, leak fluids and belch emmissions, all byproducts of them running hard and properly. And, by the way, pretty efficiently.
I am surrounded by diesel engines every day. If we get 100k out of a Ford Powerstroke (6.0L), we consider that lucky. There is not one in the fleet that has not been apart. Most of the new SuperDuty purchases made over the past three years have been back to gas due to reliability.We are starting to see abnormal wear in the big stuff as well. Much of this is a result of Tier 3 and beyond emmissions requirements and trying to clean up diesel particulate emmissions?!?!?
I am all for diesel vehicles. As you can see below, my last two were diesels! From a positive perspective, the ML CDI I had delivered VERY good performance. Plenty of pedal (better than my current hemi) and consistant 25mpg regardless of driving conditions. The downside- $500 every 10k at the MB dealer. From what I have read recently, the CDI is starting to show reliability issues at 100k and just beyond.
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  #33  
Old 01-12-2012, 11:19 AM
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Re: "Yeah, but diesel costs more..."

^^^ yes there is no comparison between reliable "truck" diesels of a few years ago and the current "car" and emissions optimized versions, although the cummins used in the dodge still seems to fair pretty well. About 2006 was the last year where emission equipment was not much of a burden. They are two different technology animals and applying conclusions from one to the other may just be wrong. It is more complicated than one would think.
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  #34  
Old 01-12-2012, 11:35 AM
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Re: "Yeah, but diesel costs more..."

Not really. You are correct about the Cummins engines. I have a pair of "mechanicals" in our boat. They are referred to as "mechanicals" in the industry due to the mechinical fuel management system used. After about '06 or so, everything went electronic, including marine and industrial applications. All, regardless of application are under the same microscope. There is one MB diesel in the fleet that has an exhaust regeneration system that actually shuts the truck down to idle/combination for 30 minutes at a time to "clean" the emmissions system. Not really good when that same engine runs a PTO that powers a vac excavation unit..!
My point: the "beautification" of diesel engines is across the board. As a result, the traditional reliability model no longer applies.
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  #35  
Old 01-12-2012, 02:13 PM
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Re: "Yeah, but diesel costs more..."

I just have a slightly different concern. I bought hemi because I tow. I have a long history with diesel ( omni diesel, 'burban, cummings, B5 VW, mb W123, along with heavy duty Detroit Diesel).
Technology CR diesel- i have not read too much about jeep one ( is it bosch or delphi?) but it seems in a light duty application in NA market every diesel struggles, would it be a particulate filter or a HPFP; from top of my head BMW had to extend warrantee for the component, VW/Audi with Common rail diesel seems to be having serious issues, injector pump/using addictives with ford diesel. Every car has its problem, just don't want one that i can't minimize...Availability of fuel? A rancher with money for WK2? I might fit the bill, but look at the problem at hand. Diesel after going to Ultra low sulfur costs more than premium, in turn has serious problems with diesel engines that were design for the European market. 50 state legal engine you say? As I recall B5 becomes mandatory starting 2012 in some of the states, but manufactures like VW straight up state if fuel is greater than B2 you are voiding the warrantee for fuel system/engine. I have plenty of D2 stations around, but I am not buying ANY vehicle with Common Rail Diesel engine until I see improvements in US market/service. VW b5 went 300k+ miles, i would imagine a new one not any worth, however at the failure rate/cost of repair ( give/take $8K) for fuel system on a new VW I am very cautious. price of admission/long usage/towing to me is a wash, however when you consider VERY expensive repairs that dealer always deny and claim on the "quality of fuel".... thanks, but no thanks. Love my oil burners, but I am sticking with gasser for now!
This is just my opinion, and i welcome any correction. I am guy that knows his way around a car and i have to work for my money...so I tend to analyze before spending ( therefore I need/want new VW/BMW/MB diesel but staying away for now).
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  #36  
Old 01-12-2012, 05:05 PM
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Re: "Yeah, but diesel costs more..."

Not only do diesels provide better mileage, but environmentally these new clean diesels produce less emissions than gas engines.
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