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  #37  
Old 01-12-2012, 05:12 PM
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Re: "Yeah, but diesel costs more..."

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Originally Posted by ilber View Post
I just have a slightly different concern. I bought hemi because I tow. I have a long history with diesel ( omni diesel, 'burban, cummings, B5 VW, mb W123, along with heavy duty Detroit Diesel).
Technology CR diesel- i have not read too much about jeep one ( is it bosch or delphi?) but it seems in a light duty application in NA market every diesel struggles, would it be a particulate filter or a HPFP; from top of my head BMW had to extend warrantee for the component, VW/Audi with Common rail diesel seems to be having serious issues, injector pump/using addictives with ford diesel. Every car has its problem, just don't want one that i can't minimize...Availability of fuel? A rancher with money for WK2? I might fit the bill, but look at the problem at hand. Diesel after going to Ultra low sulfur costs more than premium, in turn has serious problems with diesel engines that were design for the European market. 50 state legal engine you say? As I recall B5 becomes mandatory starting 2012 in some of the states, but manufactures like VW straight up state if fuel is greater than B2 you are voiding the warrantee for fuel system/engine. I have plenty of D2 stations around, but I am not buying ANY vehicle with Common Rail Diesel engine until I see improvements in US market/service. VW b5 went 300k+ miles, i would imagine a new one not any worth, however at the failure rate/cost of repair ( give/take $8K) for fuel system on a new VW I am very cautious. price of admission/long usage/towing to me is a wash, however when you consider VERY expensive repairs that dealer always deny and claim on the "quality of fuel".... thanks, but no thanks. Love my oil burners, but I am sticking with gasser for now!
This is just my opinion, and i welcome any correction. I am guy that knows his way around a car and i have to work for my money...so I tend to analyze before spending ( therefore I need/want new VW/BMW/MB diesel but staying away for now).
I'm riding the same wave as you, But i will be waiting to see when the VF 8 speed transmission release will be? might buy sooner than later we will see but definitely gas. I am more concerned with MPG.
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  #38  
Old 01-12-2012, 05:18 PM
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Re: "Yeah, but diesel costs more..."

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Originally Posted by Red G8R View Post
Not only do diesels provide better mileage, but environmentally these new clean diesels produce less emissions than gas engines.
Most are still probably "dirtier" than their gas counterparts, but the difference would be negligible.

You can compare emissions at fueleconomy.gov and compare a BMW 335d with a 335i or compare the VW Jetta TDI with the VW Jetta 2.0.
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  #39  
Old 01-12-2012, 08:05 PM
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Re: "Yeah, but diesel costs more..."

Myself and anyone else here (WK2 owners) own a vehicle that probably has a carbon foot print the size of the state of texas due to the raw materials in it. I honestly cannot believe this discussion about emissions and fuel economy. Unless we all live in mud huts, and drive a smart car, this is pointless, but entertaining. The difference between any engine in our vehicles is really minor, less than a handfull of MPG's. In the USA it is almost silly to own a diesel anything, foreign countries a little more cost effective. In the end I am confused why any automotive diesel engines exist. If it's not a microscopic engine for a little car or a huge engine truck there seems to be no real advantage for the middle to large sized vehicles. I am kind of biased, i do work in the oil & gas industry, and love the "save the planet" bumper stickers on ford excursions and expeditions and such. We are all responsible for the planet's future, and my SUV will not end the planet. The gas turbines that my company makes that burn hundreds of gallons per minute of diesel fuel or millions of standard cubic feet per minute of natural gas will be the end to the planet. Not an automobile or a cow fart.

No matter what fuel you use, either gasoline or diesel fuel, You keep me employed. I thank you all. Keep driving 50 miles each way to work in your 5000lb vehicle.
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  #40  
Old 01-12-2012, 10:01 PM
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Re: "Yeah, but diesel costs more..."

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Originally Posted by Nissan-SR20-Man View Post
Myself and anyone else here (WK2 owners) own a vehicle that probably has a carbon foot print the size of the state of texas due to the raw materials in it. I honestly cannot believe this discussion about emissions and fuel economy. Unless we all live in mud huts, and drive a smart car, this is pointless, but entertaining. The difference between any engine in our vehicles is really minor, less than a handfull of MPG's. In the USA it is almost silly to own a diesel anything, foreign countries a little more cost effective. In the end I am confused why any automotive diesel engines exist. If it's not a microscopic engine for a little car or a huge engine truck there seems to be no real advantage for the middle to large sized vehicles. I am kind of biased, i do work in the oil & gas industry, and love the "save the planet" bumper stickers on ford excursions and expeditions and such. We are all responsible for the planet's future, and my SUV will not end the planet. The gas turbines that my company makes that burn hundreds of gallons per minute of diesel fuel or millions of standard cubic feet per minute of natural gas will be the end to the planet. Not an automobile or a cow fart.

No matter what fuel you use, either gasoline or diesel fuel, You keep me employed. I thank you all. Keep driving 50 miles each way to work in your 5000lb vehicle.
Some people might look at me and question my logic. But let's see. on a good weather day I would take bike, bad weather-gto, snowy packed slick crap hyundai, deep snow jeep. if I am planning to stop at the supply company I would take jeep.
I commute 80+ miles round trip a day, I work for fuel-energy engineering outfit.... you guessed it- refineries/ethanol plants along with nukes so I support burning dino juice, cellulosic origin biofuels ( sorry I do oppose of corn origin one), algy biodiesel or plug your car into the grid. BUT I feel that people SHOULD BE SOCIALLY RESPONSIABLE. yeah big SUV is great, but if you are taxing your ass well it is a waste. Get a gas miser, even if you can afford gas guzzling bill ( you know, the responsibility part....).on a flip side a Nissan versa with 2 passengers of my size ( 6'2" 285lb) is irresponsible ( that little car going up to 8000' ASL downshifted to first gear and I was at 5500RPM for at least 5 mins) which obviously resulted in a teens for fuel economy and a bunch of people upset on the highway). Getting a diesel in a car? well I LOVE to slug the engine... you know driving 30mph in a top gear burping engine just above idle speed? Well a vehicle with a TQ of a large displacement or diesel fits my need great! In return I can say that 40mpg is not a bad compromise... I guess fuel mileage is not a great argument or cost per mile. for instance my Hyundai gives me 9 cents per mile, vs. a tdi would return same 9 cents per mile (accounting fuel cost difference and estimate fuel economy). But I WOULD MUCH RATHER drive 230ft-lb at 2-3k rpm vs 140ft-lb @4-5k rpm. Does not make sense? Well it does to me, so as a fan of hydrogen cell, diesel-electric hybrid for urban environment.

of course I do have a green thumb as well.... so I planted over 400 trees on my property for the heck of it along with having a half an acre of vegetable garden that i grow some greens and a greenhouse ...so I think MY CARBON PRINT IS SMALL, will not you agree?
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  #41  
Old 01-13-2012, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nissan-SR20-Man View Post
Myself and anyone else here (WK2 owners) own a vehicle that probably has a carbon foot print the size of the state of texas due to the raw materials in it. I honestly cannot believe this discussion about emissions and fuel economy. Unless we all live in mud huts, and drive a smart car, this is pointless, but entertaining. The difference between any engine in our vehicles is really minor, less than a handfull of MPG's. In the USA it is almost silly to own a diesel anything, foreign countries a little more cost effective. In the end I am confused why any automotive diesel engines exist. If it's not a microscopic engine for a little car or a huge engine truck there seems to be no real advantage for the middle to large sized vehicles. I am kind of biased, i do work in the oil & gas industry, and love the "save the planet" bumper stickers on ford excursions and expeditions and such. We are all responsible for the planet's future, and my SUV will not end the planet. The gas turbines that my company makes that burn hundreds of gallons per minute of diesel fuel or millions of standard cubic feet per minute of natural gas will be the end to the planet. Not an automobile or a cow fart.

No matter what fuel you use, either gasoline or diesel fuel, You keep me employed. I thank you all. Keep driving 50 miles each way to work in your 5000lb vehicle.
Amen man. I usually say "I drive a 4500lb SUV that gets, at best, 22mpg on the highway. I am as far from a treehugger as it gets!". If I want gas mileage I ride my Yamaha to work or drive the Camry. Otherwise I enjoy my Jeep!

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  #42  
Old 01-13-2012, 07:19 AM
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Re: "Yeah, but diesel costs more..."

ilbr, you bring up a good point. My thinking for bringing my MB to the dealer for service was exactly that. There are so few competent mechanics familiar with the new systems, I wanted to protect myself with MB letterhead incase there was an issue down the road. The MB CDI engine was not 50 state and relied on a complex cat to scrub the particulates. As far as I knew, it did not clean itself like my '08 Powerstroke would.

At the end of the day, I am all for diesel power. I travel to Germany quite a bit and marvel at the diesel power over there. I just think it is important to realize that these new engines are not the 300+k trouble-free oil burners their ancestors were.
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  #43  
Old 01-13-2012, 08:22 PM
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Re: "Yeah, but diesel costs more..."

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Originally Posted by ilber View Post
...so I think MY CARBON PRINT IS SMALL, will not you agree?
Only you can make that comment, as it is either your fact or your opinion. Do not take me the wrong way, I do not slash tires on Prius's or fit's. I also donate my used oil and do not burn tires

You have made a valid explanation of your decision to go diesel, it makes sense for you. Most of us will never change altitude like you, and most of use never go off of tarmac with a 4x4. I am responsible to our planet with my high efficiency (98%) furnace, well insulated house, and do own three 4 cylinder cars. I also own 2 v8 vehicles, a truck and an suv for work and the weekend. I drive a 4 cyl (i do take turns on which) during the week. Everyone has opinions and are entiltled to them. Most people (not ilber) have an opinion of the planet's future, and also drive a not so "realistic" vehicle with the classic "don't drill" or "love thy mother earth" bumper stickers. If I had a dollar for every V8 vehicle I see with no cargo, or one passenger in it, I would be rich beyond belief. This is america, and if I want to drive a 1971 plymouth duster 440 V8 leaking raw fuel out of the exhaust, getting 1 MPG I can, god bless america due to our freedoms. My last statement is extreme, but I do own a duster, that does get about 4-6 MPG's.
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