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  #13  
Old 07-27-2015, 11:44 PM
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Re: Ripp vs. Whipple ??

For the Whipple installed at a shop, somewhere around 10k is probably about right. I think Livernois is closer to 11k for them to install it. I installed myself as I'm in TX and they're in MI.

Anyone tuning is going to tell you somewhere between 4-8psi for a stock motor. IMO it really depends on the tune and the capability of the shop behind it. If you throw a sh!t tune on a stock motor, you can damage it. You can also damage a motor with a moderate 4psi if the tune is off. AD is running 8+ I believe on a stock motor, running E85 and seems to be solid; I can't say if they have anything outside the shop Jeep though. If you search and read enough of the forums, Jeep, Charger, etc., anything with the 6.4, you will see both sides. The same thing happened with the 6.1 hemis. Just about EVERYONE has had failures, hence my comment about putting forged pieces in. It won't save you from a catastrophic event, but it can provide a bit of insurance.

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  #14  
Old 07-28-2015, 08:41 AM
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Re: Ripp vs. Whipple ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lankness View Post
For the Whipple installed at a shop, somewhere around 10k is probably about right. I think Livernois is closer to 11k for them to install it. I installed myself as I'm in TX and they're in MI.



Anyone tuning is going to tell you somewhere between 4-8psi for a stock motor. IMO it really depends on the tune and the capability of the shop behind it. If you throw a sh!t tune on a stock motor, you can damage it. You can also damage a motor with a moderate 4psi if the tune is off. AD is running 8+ I believe on a stock motor, running E85 and seems to be solid; I can't say if they have anything outside the shop Jeep though. If you search and read enough of the forums, Jeep, Charger, etc., anything with the 6.4, you will see both sides. The same thing happened with the 6.1 hemis. Just about EVERYONE has had failures, hence my comment about putting forged pieces in. It won't save you from a catastrophic event, but it can provide a bit of insurance.

Got it. Thank you
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Old 07-28-2015, 06:37 PM
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Re: Ripp vs. Whipple ??

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Originally Posted by BlackMamba View Post
i have ripp for sale if you want. You can run 5 to 7 pounds of boost on stock motor anything more you need to invest more money. 10 lb of boost on the forged motor will give you good power 650-700whp but then you're limited by your transmission. Anything beyond this point it's guessing.

Which one how much??
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  #16  
Old 07-29-2015, 12:57 PM
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Re: Ripp vs. Whipple ??

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Originally Posted by Lankness View Post
That is yet to be determined. We have some ideas from investigating the carnage, but Livernois wants to get it on the rollers and do some diagnostics/logging to determine the root cause.

At this point, the motor is back together and back in the Jeep at Livernois' shop. Currently, they are installing a new dyno, so the Jeep is awaiting that to be completed.

I was running a little under 8psi. The motors are the same between the '12 and '15 - 6.4L. Your ability to tune it varies on year along with the transmission of course.

Still, drop the forged pieces in with any route. It is a small price to pay compared to what it can turn into. Trust me...

Well, to clarify, the engine failed due to a dropped valve. Why it dropped isn't something that can ever be known 100% definitively. Based on our logs with the truck since it's been running, all is spot on compared to where it should be.

We see 5.7, 6.1, and 6.4 engines just drop valves from time to time. The early engines had a huge issue with valve seats moving around, but the 6.4 engines have extremely thin wall hollow valves which are just begging to fail. So in any built engine we recommend moving to a solid stem valve for better durability, and upgraded springs for better valvetrain control, and then for the final item for upgrading, our Rocker Bar system to really keep everything happy.

With that said, it's still what we would call a rare failure. But it's also common enough that we see it on a good number of engine builds we do. Many of the engines being sent in have PTV issues.

On the vote side, we really like the whipple. It's just what this truck needs, a ton of power added everywhere in the RPM band.
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  #17  
Old 07-30-2015, 04:52 PM
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Re: Ripp vs. Whipple ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by LivernoisMotorsports View Post
Well, to clarify, the engine failed due to a dropped valve. Why it dropped isn't something that can ever be known 100% definitively. Based on our logs with the truck since it's been running, all is spot on compared to where it should be.

We see 5.7, 6.1, and 6.4 engines just drop valves from time to time. The early engines had a huge issue with valve seats moving around, but the 6.4 engines have extremely thin wall hollow valves which are just begging to fail. So in any built engine we recommend moving to a solid stem valve for better durability, and upgraded springs for better valvetrain control, and then for the final item for upgrading, our Rocker Bar system to really keep everything happy.

With that said, it's still what we would call a rare failure. But it's also common enough that we see it on a good number of engine builds we do. Many of the engines being sent in have PTV issues.

On the vote side, we really like the whipple. It's just what this truck needs, a ton of power added everywhere in the RPM band.
What about doing a full port and polish, roller rockers, and a cam while the motor is apart and getting forged?
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Old 07-31-2015, 10:25 AM
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Re: Ripp vs. Whipple ??

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Originally Posted by Carbon6 View Post
What about doing a full port and polish, roller rockers, and a cam while the motor is apart and getting forged?
We definitely have that capability since we have a full CNC program for the Apache heads, as well as camshaft offerings. As for roller rockers, we have found the OEM are actually superior in the vast majority of applications.

Now, doing the rocker bar upgrade, springs, and valves are something we recommend even if not porting or changing the cam if you are doing an engine build. It's all just nice insurance.
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  #19  
Old 07-31-2015, 05:18 PM
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Re: Ripp vs. Whipple ??

Have y'all done any custom work beyond forging on any 6.4L (not increasing the displacement) with the whipple and if so, how much of an improvement did you see?
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  #20  
Old 08-01-2015, 10:18 AM
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Re: Ripp vs. Whipple ??

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Originally Posted by Carbon6 View Post
Have y'all done any custom work beyond forging on any 6.4L (not increasing the displacement) with the whipple and if so, how much of an improvement did you see?
not as of yet, we have had a few inquiries about doing strokers, but with how much power can be made on a stock displacement engine most have elected to stay stock cubes.
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Old 08-08-2015, 10:55 AM
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Re: Ripp vs. Whipple ??

We have had a lot of people inquiring about the valves and valvetrain upgrades since we have seen issues on all of the hemi engines with valve dropping. We are now releasing our Powerstorm 6.4 Apache heads. Below is an excerpt from our press release on these new heads:

Bolt on performance for your 6.4L Hemi engine with these CNC cylinder heads. These heads offer Livernois Motorsports & Engineering custom developed port and valve-job for significant gains in airflow and performance. These heads also come with Livernois Motorsports & Engineering's own custom valve spring kit with matching retainers and locks. The springs allow for much larger camshafts and improved valvetrain stability.

Features:
6.4L Apache Hemi casting
5 axis CNC machined
Fully assembled
Increased Intake Flow Rate +36 CFM
Increased Exhaust Flow Rate +42 CFM
Stainless 2.160 Intake Valves
Stainless 1.590 Exhaust Valves
High Temperature valve seals
Livernois Beehive valve springs with coating
Livernois upgraded retainers

Not only does you prevent valve Float, but you have a much more durable valve as well. The 6.4 Apache uses a thin-wall hollow stem valve that is not the best when it comes to stability. Combine that with a weak valve spring, and the rocker bar deflection we see and it's just a matter of time before a failure happens. To compliment this we recommend pairing these heads with our rocker bar upgrade as well to offer the best stability and durability from the valvetrain possible. Click here to check out the product page on this product!
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  #22  
Old 08-11-2015, 02:59 PM
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Re: Ripp vs. Whipple ??

Glad to see someone stepping up to the plate to fully support the Jeep SRT8 community! Awesome work guys, love everything you are doing for us!
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Old 08-13-2015, 05:11 AM
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Re: Ripp vs. Whipple ??

would like it
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