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  #97  
Old 09-23-2014, 01:30 PM
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Re: What's the verdict on LED headlight bulbs vs. HID?

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Originally Posted by JDebler View Post
I managed to crawl back under for the umpteenth time (WTF is "umpteenth" anyway?) last night to replace one of the fan versions with one of the fanless versions.

Before I did, I took some quick temperature readings, leaving them on for 5 minutes uncoupled from the headlamp housing in 60 degree outside temperature.

Fan version - the fan area and heat sync hardly got warm. The ballast did get very warm along with the LED housing that contains the LED elements also got very warm.

No fan version - Got a touch warmer than the fan version, but only by a few degrees.

OEM Incandescent bulb - got a little bit hotter than the no fan version.

I forgot the exact temp readings, I left the notes on my workbench at home and I am currently at work.

Keep in mind, these are hardly scientific research. Just have an infrared thermometer gun from Harbor Freight and I try to find the hottest point.

So I installed the no fan version on the driver side, kept the fan version in the passenger side.

At first glance, the no fan version seems not quite as bright but I also think I need to re-aim the headlight. I also thought I saw a flicker but I also have to confirm that in total darkness. I plan to do more testing tonight and I will report back along with the temp readings.
So, here are my two choices (all depending on a few things)

CREE 48W 4400LM H11 Car CREE CXA 1512 LED Car Headlight Kit White 5000K Bulb Hot | eBay

2014 New 40W 4800 LM CREE LED Headlight Kit Bulb 9005 9006 H8 H11 H4 H7 | eBay

I also have a 2013 E-group without HID. With the first choice, how hard was it to install these? Any cutting and soldering or anything? I guess that is party of my question for the second option as well.

Thanks.

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  #98  
Old 09-23-2014, 04:49 PM
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Re: What's the verdict on LED headlight bulbs vs. HID?

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Originally Posted by Chunderboy View Post
So, here are my two choices (all depending on a few things)...
Those are the two that I am testing. Fan version and fanless version.

Quote:
I also have a 2013 E-group without HID. With the first choice, how hard was it to install these? Any cutting and soldering or anything? I guess that is party of my question for the second option as well.
With both to make it easy, you need a small phillips screwdriver, a body panel remover tool (although a flat screwdriver will do in a pinch) and a 10mm socket. Turn the wheel away from the side you are working on (so turn it left if you are working on the driver side) and remove the entire front inner splash guard screws and bolts (and one twist-lock fastener). Trust me, it wiil be MUCH easier that trying to use the little port hole and only takes a few minutes. Lay down under the front bumper and you can reach all the way up to the headlight. Remove and replace.

The fan version is more difficult because you have to mount the ballast. I got some 3M Dual Lock velcro to fasten it to a vertical piece of the structure behind the headlight.

In my case, neither one needed soldering or cutting.
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  #99  
Old 09-23-2014, 04:52 PM
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Re: What's the verdict on LED headlight bulbs vs. HID?

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Originally Posted by JDebler View Post
Those are the two that I am testing. Fan version and fanless version.



With both to make it easy, you need a small phillips screwdriver, a body panel remover tool (although a flat screwdriver will do in a pinch) and a 10mm socket. Turn the wheel away from the side you are working on (so turn it left if you are working on the passenger side) and remove the entire front inner splash guard screws and bolts (and one twist-lock fastener). Trust me, it wiil be MUCH easier that trying to use the little port hole and only takes a few minutes. Lay down under the front bumper and you can reach all the way up to the headlight. Remove and replace.

The fan version is more difficult because you have to mount the ballast. I got some 3M Dual Lock velcro to fasten it to a vertical piece of the structure behind the headlight.

In my case, neither one needed soldering or cutting.
Cool. Now, down to choices.. which one do you prefer? I watched your youtube vid and very informative for sure.
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  #100  
Old 09-23-2014, 04:56 PM
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Re: What's the verdict on LED headlight bulbs vs. HID?

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Originally Posted by Chunderboy View Post
Cool. Now, down to choices.. which one do you prefer? I watched your youtube vid and very informative for sure.
I am not sure yet. That is what I have to determine.

BTW...I mistyped earlier. Turn the wheel left if you are working on the driver side. That gives you more room to work. I edited my post so it was accurate.
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  #101  
Old 09-23-2014, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDebler View Post

I am not sure yet. That is what I have to determine.

BTW...I mistyped earlier. Turn the wheel left if you are working on the driver side. That gives you more room to work. I edited my post so it was accurate.
Thanks bro.. Along the same lines, have you done any research on the nightbreaker ultras? I have read some good reviews considering they are halogen
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  #102  
Old 09-23-2014, 10:30 PM
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Re: What's the verdict on LED headlight bulbs vs. HID?

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Originally Posted by Chunderboy View Post
Thanks bro.. Along the same lines, have you done any research on the nightbreaker ultras? I have read some good reviews considering they are halogen
If you mean the Osram Nightbreaker Unlimited (latest version):
OSRAM Night Breaker Unlimited H11 (Twin) | PowerBulbs

I'm running them right now.
Not as 'white' as my JW Speaker fog lights, but most definitely not as yellow as an OEM halogen bulb.

If I hadn't dropped $45 on them I would probably be buying a pair of the LED headlights.

I've been a fan of LED flashlights for years (my wife thinks I'm nuts because I have so many, but they keep getting better!).

I've done some research. If you are going to buy some LED headlights I would make sure you go with the Cree XM-L2 LEDs (fan or fanless - your choice). They aren't the latest/greatest, but I think they are the best bet. I like the small diode surface area. I think it would work best in our headlight housing to project a 'proper' beam pattern.

The Cree XM-L2 is a 10 watt diode. Each H11 'bulb' uses two of them (one pointing up, one pointing down) for 20watts total per 'bulb'.

There is a newer Cree diode called an MT-G2. It's an 18 watt diode so the H11 'bulbs' on eBay only use one of them mounted on one side. I don't think this would give you as good of a beam pattern from the OEM housing (and you have 2 watts less output).

The XM-L2 is used a LOT in the tactical flashlight world. Driven by alkaline and li-ion batteries, they put out about 850 lumens. So driven by a steady 13.6 volts from the vehicle electrical system I don't think it would be too much of a stretch for them to claim 2000 lumen output per 'bulb' (1000 lumen per diode).

Just my $0.02.
Oh, and I'm also partial to the listings that specify the "TXT" brand. They have distributors in the US so the delivery time would be faster.

If I were to click the 'buy' button today, I would personally go with these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2X-12V-car-i...-/141317772366
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  #103  
Old 09-23-2014, 10:48 PM
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Re: What's the verdict on LED headlight bulbs vs. HID?

Okay, gang.

First, as a follow up to my previous post, here are the temperatures that I took:
  • Fan version - 110 degrees at hottest spot between ballast and housing.
  • No fan version - 113 degrees
  • OEM bulb - 116 degrees
I updated my previous post to reflect this.

Now for the update and my final decsion. Tonight, I did some night testing and here's what I found.

I did confirm that the fanless bulb I installed did flicker slightly in the driver side, even more noticeable than the fan version in the passenger side (the fan version in the driver side didn't flicker noticeably). I also believe that the fanless version isn't quite as bright as the fan version, but that might be because...

In addition to the flicker mentioned, the fanless version scatters the light more than the fan version. Here some pics (headlights only on, JWSpeaker fogs lights are off):

Fanless on left, fan version on right


Fanless version only


Fan version only


You can also see there is a dim spot near the middle with the fanless version. The color matches the JWSpeaker fogs lights a bit more than the fan version, but the scatter isn't good in my opinion (even though the JWS fogs help slightly).

My personal verdict/opinion:
I think I am going to stick with the fan version for now. I prefer the best light pattern and I can barely hear the fans running when the lights stay on after I get out of the vehicle to confirm they still work.

If you want my advice, here's how to decide for yourself:

Go with the fanless version if:
  • Don't mind the light scattering
  • You don't trust the idea of the fan running all the time that the lights are on
  • Want an easier install (no ballast to mount)

Go with the fan version if:
  • You want a better light pattern
  • Don't mind the idea of the fan running (keep in mind, your computer fan runs for a long, long time under possibly dustier conditions and there is the theory that if the fan fails, the light will shut off as a safety factor)
  • Don't mind the additional installation of the ballast

With both, it looks like you will have to use a CANBUS canceler to prevent the flickering (just like an HID kit would need). I have some of the CANBUS units and that will be my next test, possibly this weekend.

I honestly think at this time, the aftermarket LED light technology isn't quite where it needs to be considering the shortcomings outlined. I wouldn't expect it to take too long for them to get better. I am no expert, but here is how I think the improvements should be to make them perfect...
  • Be able to clock the light unit to be optimal to the reflector. That may help the scatter/dim spot of the fanless version. I did see that there is a version out there that allows for this, but I cannot recall where and I am unsure if it would totally solve the problem.
  • Have a true 360 degree light output like an incandescent bulb. The scattering in the fanless version seems to be due to the two small LED elements not providing complete coverage, again, like an incandescent bulb. The fan version has a larger LED element with a reflector, which may be what helps lessen the scattering. Again, not an expert. Just sort of assuming.
  • Not need a fan, ballast, or CANBUS canceler.

I will be going back to SEMA this November and I will be speaking with the suppliers there about this. Perhaps by then a better version will be available. I will confirm and report back later what I find, and I will also try to confirm if the fan version has a safety shutoff if the fan fails.

Hope this helps someone but please remember that all of my posts and opinions are YMMV, and are just from my personal observations. Did I mention that I am far from an expert on this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunderboy View Post
Thanks bro.. Along the same lines, have you done any research on the nightbreaker ultras? I have read some good reviews considering they are halogen
Nope, never heard of them before. Interesting! I think I will keep trying to find the right LED headlights but if I get tired of the chase, I might give them a shot!
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  #104  
Old 09-23-2014, 11:36 PM
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Huge help on this plus rep!

Last question (I think)... Do you know if an h11 fits the fog light housing on my 2013 Laredo? I have been reading thread after thread and some say yes and some say no..
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  #105  
Old 09-23-2014, 11:57 PM
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Re: What's the verdict on LED headlight bulbs vs. HID?

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Originally Posted by kookoo102 View Post
Could you post up what ones you installed? And do you have any pics of the design of the light itself? There are so many, would be interested in seeing what kind you have.

Thank you

Here are some photos of the LED headlights I installed in my 2012 Halogen headlight Jeep, low beam and high beam/drl both bulbs replaced ImageUploadedByJeepGarage1411530865.796916.jpgImageUploadedByJeepGarage1411530883.421987.jpgImageUploadedByJeepGarage1411530906.901700.jpgImageUploadedByJeepGarage1411530925.246967.jpgImageUploadedByJeepGarage1411530950.148892.jpgl
Last photo is low beams on, with led bulb on left and halogen bulb in right side


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  #106  
Old 09-24-2014, 05:50 PM
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Re: What's the verdict on LED headlight bulbs vs. HID?

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Originally Posted by Chunderboy View Post
Huge help on this plus rep!

Last question (I think)... Do you know if an h11 fits the fog light housing on my 2013 Laredo? I have been reading thread after thread and some say yes and some say no..
No.
The 2011-13 foglights use the 2502 incandescent bulb....
Other wise known as a 'candle in the wind'.
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  #107  
Old 09-25-2014, 11:04 PM
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Re: What's the verdict on LED headlight bulbs vs. HID?

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Originally Posted by Todd3.6 View Post
No.
The 2011-13 foglights use the 2502 incandescent bulb....
Other wise known as a 'candle in the wind'.
Correction....
PSX24W bulb, apparently you can 'adapt' a 5202 to fit the socket also.

Either way, they are crap.
Seriously...
A normal incandescent bulb in a modern vehicle.
Cheap bastards.
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  #108  
Old 09-25-2014, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd3.6 View Post

Correction....
PSX24W bulb, apparently you can 'adapt' a 5202 to fit the socket also.

Either way, they are crap.
Seriously...
A normal incandescent bulb in a modern vehicle.
Cheap bastards.
Agreed.. I just picked up some psx24w led for the fogs and we shall see how they look when I put them in (will post some pics) I also, got some Philips xtreme vision bulbs for the headlights and from what I have read they are the best halogen ones (tied to the nightbreakers)

I mean, I want to get the JK Speaker lights, but man, they are pricey.
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