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Old 02-16-2012, 08:59 PM
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05 WK - Trouble Starting W/Warm Engine!

I bought my 05 WK about 2 months ago from a shady little hole in the wall dealer, since less than stellar credit limited my choices of who would finance me. About a week after purchase, it developed a strange problem. Whenever I drove around town (between college classes, errands, etc) and would try to start the car while the engine was warm/hot, the car would struggle, shudder, and the engine would turn but nothing happened. After a few attempts at forcing it it would finally take. I'm not sure what is causing this, although from what I've looked up online, it seems like it might be a failing fuel pump issue? Here are a few notes about the situation:

It only happens when the temp gauge is at half. If the engine is cold, the car starts up like a champ every time.

It has been getting progressively worse. At first it would struggle once or twice, then run like normal. Now it struggles so much that if I continue to try it, the battery eventually gives out too.

The car has ~ 147,600 miles on it. It is a 3.7L V6.

The car has never stalled while driving, but it does lag and feel underpowered when accelerating hard (such as to pass someone, or pick up speed rapidly on the freeway) and when going up hill.

When the car initially starts it will either idle at 1,500rpm or 500rpm. It's usually one or the other, and I can experience both in the same day (start it once, it idles at 1,500, start it an hour later, it idles at 500)

Trying to start the car with the gas pedal depressed doesn't do anything to make the situation better. Likewise, turning the car on/off without trying to start the engine to engage the fuel pump also doesn't make the engine start if it's warm. Essentially, when it's warm I have a giant paperweight on wheels and have no choice but to sit in my car for 30-45 minutes and wait.

Does anyone know what is causing this? It's very frustrating and before I start throwing money left and right at my car for repairs, I'd like an idea of what this could be and if anyone else experienced this. I shot a video of it using my iPhone and have uploaded that on youtube since I think that will give everyone a good idea as to how it is behaving. You can view that here:



Also, outside of the check engine light coming on when the engine cranks but fails to start, there are no lights that come on while driving. The CEL goes away once the engine actually turns on. Two mechanics looked at it and neither was able to pull any codes. I know the fuel pump itself won't throw a code if it is failing, but I felt that I should put that out there since it may rule out other defects which could cause similar behavior but would throw a code.

Thanks in advance! Hopefully it's something annoying/small and nothing too expensive.
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Old 02-16-2012, 09:29 PM
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Re: 05 WK - Trouble Starting W/Warm Engine!

Can you hear the fuel pump buzz when you turn the key?
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Old 02-16-2012, 09:37 PM
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Re: 05 WK - Trouble Starting W/Warm Engine!

I wish I was there to pull that code for you.
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Old 02-16-2012, 09:42 PM
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Re: 05 WK - Trouble Starting W/Warm Engine!

It just might be the fuel pump. With that mileage.
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Old 02-16-2012, 09:44 PM
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Re: 05 WK - Trouble Starting W/Warm Engine!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleeding Blue View Post
Can you hear the fuel pump buzz when you turn the key?
I have tried to listen to it, even with the gas cap open and my ear against it, but whenever the car is on the fritz like this I don't hear anything in there, not even the faintest whine/buzz. It's dead silent. I plan on trying later this evening when my boyfriend comes home (the engine will be cold by then) to see if I can hear anything this time. That was one of the things I checked for which lead me to suspect a fuel pump issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lll2for3lll View Post
I wish I was there to pull that code for you.
The strange thing is that I took the car to TWO mechanics, one of which owns a specialty shop dedicated just to Jeep vehicles, and they both tried to check for codes and got nothing. The car was chattering away like an angry chipmunk yet neither of their units found any codes, despite the CEL being on due to the engine failing to start. Once the engine does finally roar to life, the CEL disappears and the computer still doesn't register any codes.

It's baffling, to say the least.
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Old 02-16-2012, 09:49 PM
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Re: 05 WK - Trouble Starting W/Warm Engine!

I'm not auguring with those mechanics and don't doubt them but you don't need the engine running to pull codes I don't think......

Somebody WILL chime in. You have given ample description. The fact that only does it when the engine is warm is a good clue to something.

Did it start initially by shutting off on crank once and then on the second try...start without a problem and then not do it again for another a couple of weeks? Is that how this all started?
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Old 02-16-2012, 09:49 PM
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Re: 05 WK - Trouble Starting W/Warm Engine!

My fuel pump has never failed on my WK, but did on my previous vehicle and I had the same starting intermittently issues. When you get another person crawl under by the tank to listen, but I am guessing it is the fuel pump

I even had it towed once after if wouldnt start for hours and of course it fired at the mechanics and they said the pump was fine. It finally went out like 3 months later.
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Old 02-16-2012, 09:52 PM
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Re: 05 WK - Trouble Starting W/Warm Engine!

You can also here it of you have it parked next to a wall on the driver side or in a garage. Just in case you don't have anybody to crawl underneath.

I would start with the fuel pump too though.
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Old 02-16-2012, 10:06 PM
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Re: 05 WK - Trouble Starting W/Warm Engine!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lll2for3lll View Post
I'm not auguring with those mechanics and don't doubt them but you don't need the engine running to pull codes I don't think......

Somebody WILL chime in. You have given ample description. The fact that only does it when the engine is warm is a good clue to something.

Did it start initially by shutting off on crank once and then on the second try...start without a problem and then not do it again for another a couple of weeks? Is that how this all started?
They did try to pull codes when the car wasn't actually starting and still didn't get anything. They also tried once it was running, same thing. I guess that's why it's so confusing. I am used to my previous car, a VW Beetle which threw codes left and right (I don't think I ever had less than 5 codes on it at any given time, no matter how much money I spent on repairs)

The first time it did it the engine did start, but then promptly shut off. The second attempt got it going though. Since then the problem has gotten worse, going from two attempts to three, four, and so on. Now I could crank it all day and it simply won't start unless it cools down for at least 30-45 minutes. I tried to force it once and after about 10-15 tries my battery died too, so I left the car abandoned in the parking lot (my boyfriend gave me a ride home) and we came back a few hours later with jumper cables, started it up, and brought it home. Today when it left me stranded at the dry-cleaners I tried 5-6 times, then gave up and let it cool off since I had learned my lesson about straining the battery. After about 45 minutes it started up and I was able to get it home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleeding Blue View Post
My fuel pump has never failed on my WK, but did on my previous vehicle and I had the same starting intermittently issues. When you get another person crawl under by the tank to listen, but I am guessing it is the fuel pump

I even had it towed once after if wouldnt start for hours and of course it fired at the mechanics and they said the pump was fine. It finally went out like 3 months later.
How many miles does your WK have? Mine is at 147,600 roughly, and I am piling on miles to the tune of 1,800-2,000+ per month, so I'm sure I will be wearing down a LOT of parts very fast. I also do not trust the dealer to have done a good job re-conditioning this car prior to it hitting the lot, or even disclosing it's faults honestly. When I bought my WK it left the lot not having a working driver's side mirror (no power functions, glass was smashed), heater (it blew cold air), passenger headlight (burnt out, housing was accumulating rain water) and interior illumination for the climate controls. I was able to get the heater and mirror repaired/replaced, but my climate controls are still blacked out. I may DIY that later on, though. As for the headlights, I'll be doing a projector retrofit so I'm in no rush to replace my leaky housing at the moment.
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Old 02-16-2012, 10:18 PM
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Re: 05 WK - Trouble Starting W/Warm Engine!

I can help you with that retrofit.

As for the climate contols, our LXHarness vender here can repair that if you have no soldering experience. His name is Bob and he just shipped my interior controls back to me after doing a color change to Blue.

If you choose to send your AC contols to him, I'll send you the spare AC controls that I currently have installed in my WK.

I'll shoot Bob a PM.
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Old 02-16-2012, 10:25 PM
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Re: 05 WK - Trouble Starting W/Warm Engine!

I sent him a message about your climate controls. I told him I'd be willing to pay. He's in Riverside/Corona, CA which is only 1 hour away from you.
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Old 02-16-2012, 10:31 PM
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Re: 05 WK - Trouble Starting W/Warm Engine!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lll2for3lll View Post
I can help you with that retrofit.

As for the climate contols, our LXHarness vender here can repair that if you have no soldering experience. His name is Bob and he just shipped my interior controls back to me after doing a color change to Blue.

If you choose to send your AC contols to him, I'll send you the spare AC controls that I currently have installed in my WK.

I'll shoot Bob a PM.

Awesome! About how difficult would soldering be for the controls? I don't have the experience, but I am extremely skilled at detail work, am patient, and I learn quickly. I have experience tinkering inside computers, doing custom builds, etc so I'm not a total klutz. Do you have any photos of your color change? I have always contemplated a color change for all my control dials/buttons. I wouldn't mind doing amber or red, personally.
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