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  #73  
Old 12-20-2010, 01:06 PM
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Re: 6+ weeks - still not fixed, '07 5.7 just dies

I read through most of these threads, but ran out of time before my next meeting. Have you contacted a Lemon Law lawyer? I suggest you do so. In most states, the consumer has quite a few rights even if the vehicle is sold 'AS-IS'.
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  #74  
Old 12-20-2010, 04:08 PM
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Re: 6+ weeks - still not fixed, '07 5.7 just dies

Jes_96 - I appreciate the advice, and understand your time was probably better spent not reading every post since I'm too damn long winded, but as mentioned previously (and please take no offense by that comment) the vehicle was purchased with less than 10 miles on the odometer, brand now. Just to bring you up to speed further without wasting hours of your time reading the other posts, PA Lemon Law doesn't exactly apply to this vehicle's problem at this time unfortunately due to when the first documented case occured. However, there are some exceptions that my legal team will certainly pursue just to be certain. I'm working with a second law firm after finding the first to be less than the best available and this is headed towards litigation with Chrysler and a suit to follow against the dealership for their neglect unfortunately as well, so that is all I can say about it at this point is we're pursuing a more appropriate form of legal action under the Mangneson Moss Warranty Act with Chrysler and undisclosed actions against the dealership as necessary for their handling / damaging of our vehicle afterwards.

2005JGC - I couldn't agree with you more, I would take offense in your shoes as well but not everyone has the same perspective on things as you and I do (in my own respect). I spent a decade working on some of the most complex computer systems in the world programming the logic that controlled the world's first driverless transit / subway systems now in use in multiple locations across the globe. As a developer whose job shared many similar aspects as those who designed, developed, and tested the computer and electrical systems used in modern vehicles, I can speak from experience and say that unfortunately, it is extremely difficult to develop a 100% flaw free system. This is why flashes are made for cars, software releases are distributed for everything from your cable box at home to to the aircraft we fly in to the cars we drive. Despite the best planning, error conditions occur without there being a planned "code" to be set. Automotive manufacturers have it even harder as they're limited to the intelligence they can install into a vehicle by the cost of complexity, but even the most complex 4 wheeled vehicle on the road doesn't have a failsafe / code grabbing scenario because a manufacturing defect in a shielded wire undetectable through resistance tests, visual inspection, etc. and unfortunately turn into a "throw a part at it and see if it fixes it" done in the best methodical approach which I'm sure Chrysler tries to provide for its mechanics. In my Jeep's case, there clearly is something causing a fault, which has been identified as the "Ignition Power Loss" which is causing the stalling, but despite every attempt to replace the entire wiring harnesses in the engine compartment, forward of the cabin (the dash has been completely out) fuse block entirely, and many, many, many other electrical components several times each such as every module in the vehicle as "unrelated" (in an untrained mind such as mine) as airbag modules, etc. A "sharp shooter" from Chrysler came into town to help diagnose the vehicle for a day and made several other remote diagnosis attempts after his first failed with no luck. In the poster's defense who unintentionally offended you (I hope) I can only admit that I've been attempted to purchase a 1970 Blazer with a couple wires coming off the engine, none to the tranny, etc. and restore it to like new condition so that the chances of the need for repair that escapes my mechanical ability rarely would exist. But, while she has her strengths and is intelligent in her own right, learning how to start a flooded engine with a 4 barrel or counter steer the rear wheel drive tank in the snow (until she can get out to lock in the hubs) are things she has no interest in doing which is why we purchased a rather complex, computer controlled AWD Jeep with ABS brakes for her to safely commute in so she can spend her time focusing on things more important thanks to the progress of technology!

My gripe in all of this isn't that I'm upset because "sh*t happened," it's that the dealership in question basically took 0 steps forward and 2 steps back every time they tried something else due to sloppy technique and incomplete testing of all systems touched along the way. The stalling worsened, the damage caused by stupid things like not using seat covers, washing hands before driving a light grey interior vehicle, smoking during the test drives, etc that led to the ruining the door panels, headliner, driver's leather seat, arm rest, carpet, a pillar trim panel, and steering wheel from cosmetic damage alone that could have EASILY been avoided. Had my vehicle come out no worse than it went in after 6 months and the dealership maintaining my confidence that they did everything they could to the best of their ability, I'd never have once had a problem with them. So obviously its a two tiered issue unfortunately that has led to way too many people being involved which as we all know can only complicate things past a certain point.

Further, I'm very troubled that the manufacturer sold me a $45k vehicle that didn't last 2.5 years / 35,000 miles essentially and thanks to the dealerships mishandling of the first attempt at a documented repair, and regardless of it happening "documented" at the first time just after the 3/36 expired, it won the battle of "which vehicle we'll purchase" because of its LIFETIME POWERTRAIN WARRANTY. While I've since learned that warranty is useless as its a double edged sword. While their stance is "this isn't a powertrain issue" my stance is "Until you prove it isn't by finding the problem, why should I be asked to pay while you try to fix it with 40+ failed attempts." I've never once said I would not pay for the repair if it were found and proven to not be covered by our warranty, however their insistence that it does not involve it has lead to them not once checking basically any item actually covered by it. I realize my statement sounds completely uneducated, but after you've run out of what it could be in regards of ideas and have already started winging parts at it, why not wing a few that are covered under the warranty? Chrysler has picked up the tab on all the experimental work so far, why not take a chance on an item I bought coverage for when I bought the vehicle? While their stance is "We don't care, we'll cut a few undisclosed (to me) bucks off a 2011 if you want, but otherwise get f*cked," my stance is - I spent 3 years paying for a vehicle I meticulously maintained both mechanically and cosmetically with the sole purpose of owning for 300k miles or until the panels rusted off it, and I'm not interested in starting the process over by taking what is less than 1.5 years left of payments and signing up for another 5 years of payments at the same time with their solution. I'm not asking for a new Maybach, I'm simply trying to get what I feel is due to us after being faithful and repeated buyers of Chyrsler products for over a decade now while supporting the independent dealerships by always taking our vehicles to their facilities for work I am not capable of performing for one reason or another. Sadly, its the corporate way - as these types of things would never have occurred in "the good old days."

Regarding the spark plugs, they were replaced at 30k miles as per the maintenance schedule and again at 35k miles when the vehicle started to show signs of problem at the suggestion of the dealership. In addition I revisited every scheduled maintenance item performed in the past 15k miles to ensure I had not caused the issue myself or anything done to the vehicle (100% stock) regardless of who performed it, had not been what caused the fluke problems. Further I believe the dealership verified the plugs were not the issue when they themselves replaced them a 3rd time early in their troubleshooting I believe. Sorry for the long answer, but I appreciate the suggestion though. Should you be interested in being the man who finds the golden ticket on this vehicle - I'd be more than happy to send you the details of what is printed on our service work orders via PM for you to look at the work performed on the vehicle so far as long as you can provide some credentials to me showing you are in fact employed as you mentioned. Please take no offense by that request should you be interested, with this being involved in what will become two separate legal cases I have to take every precaution I feel necessary to not jeopardize our cases and would need to have permission from my attorney to share such information to cover my own @ss. Again, this has nothing to do with you of course, but at $400/hr I'd hate to make a move that would result in losing the case and or me getting the bill from my highly respected attorney instead of Chrysler at the end of the day so I hope you can understand. I only offered it because the engineer in me truly believes the process has been as troubled every party involved on it, and I had such empathy and respect for the men and women working on my vehicle up to the point where they started "mailing it in" causing more damage, simply because I know just how frustrating it can be to not find the answer to a problem you've worked so hard on.

So while I have some complaints about the lack of following simple procedures such as making sure you do the job 100% and take simple measures to insure damage does not occur to the vehicle being worked on, I appreciate those who have spent hours banging their heads off the wheel when they failed to solve the problem again and again. Had they done the responsible thing and corrected the damages they caused once they were pointed out to them, I'd not have a bad thing to say about the dealership. However, their blatant ignoring of my requests to work with me and do the right thing when pointing out that damage had been caused I became frustrated. Once they wanted nothing but to get me out the door with the vehicle in a condition worse than when it was brought in months early by acting defensively and reactively to being alerted to the possibility that they may have not put all the pieces back on or tightened every bolt (in a very polite manner may I add) when the dashboard sounded like it was half installed and the steering column flopped and had such play that the wheel acted like a 1984 Impala I once had with 280k miles and a worn out steering box, they instead tried saying it most likely was bad tie rod ends after my test drive. I guess as a business owner myself, I noticed I have a different level of dedication to customer service than they do, but I don't even fault the actions of the service department on them - it has been blatantly obvious that their actions are the result of the owner/GM who directed such actions as its clearly a bottom line move in his eyes. I owe a few mechanics and service team members an apology once this is all over for my reaction at times, but I grew tired of finger pointing in a never ending circle. Despite everything that happened, I have nothing but respect for the service team at each and every dealership. My wife and I contemplated sending the entire team pizza for lunch after 4 months of trying because they made it appear as though they were doing everything THEY could, and now that I've had some time to analyze it while stepping back from the situation, I feel some of them did everything they could. Unfortunately, at the same time - the entire department has some procedural issues and weak links as there is no excuse for repeatedly having a vehicle end up in worse condition with less functioning features each time it was taken apart. I realize folks such as yourself get a bad wrap from the whoever at this place that isn't properly trained or guided to do a better job, which is why I could walk into another dealership of any brand tomorrow without ever taking my bad experience at this one with me as they're 100% unrelated facilities and each starts my experience with an "A" rating that is up to them to retain basically.

Like I said several times before, I sincerely appreciate everyone taking the time to read my thread and also for the suggestions and support along the way. Should this ever be resolved, I promise it will be posted here so that anyone with a similar problem has a resource to help their cause hopefully.

The only publicly negative statement I'll make is against Chrysler. Unfortunately I've found thousands of stories similar to their treatment of my issue that I wish I had found before purchasing the number of their products I have. In fairness, I spend quite a lot of time researching negative things about the other brands when shopping for a different vehicle during all of this and can say without bias, they clearly have tenfold the number of people out there dedicating their time to helping consumers avoid similar problems on the internet than any other big 3 company. So not to belittle the men and women building, maintaining, and selling these vehicles - unfortunately they can only do what they're told and the people at the top are the ones responsible for it all which makes perfect sense why a company can go bankrupt within a year of receiving a huge bailout from the government while others either did not take one, or have turned their companies around drastically with it.

Thanks again everyone
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Old 12-20-2010, 10:34 PM
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Re: 6+ weeks - still not fixed, '07 5.7 just dies

I went through the same crap with a poor excuse of a dealer when I bought my 2000 GC Limited. It stayed tore up the whole 3 years I owned it and the dealer kept trying to put me off and never did fix the vehicle right. After pestering the shit out of the dealer and service reps they did extend my warranty but whats the use if they couldn't fix it. I ended up trading my lemon to a new Lincoln in 2004. However the FORD dealer I traded it to fixed the GC and I have seen it on the road alot since I traded it 6 years ago. I understand vehicles do have flaws and you are bound to get one every now and then. But that is where the dealer should step up and take care of the problem.

I am sorry you have had this issue with your Grand Cherokee, because I love mine and find it a joy to drive everyday. Hell I have 4 Jeeps I like them so well. Even with the shotty dealer service I got and poor service from Chrysler reps back in the early 2000s I still returned to Jeep.

I hope you get it all worked out and are able to replace your lemon with something you can enjoy driving and get good service out of. Good luck with your endevors, and Merry Christmas.
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  #76  
Old 12-21-2010, 02:28 PM
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Re: 6+ weeks - still not fixed, '07 5.7 just dies

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2005JGC View Post
This is unfourtunate.... I am one of these dealership mechanics (not your problem one). I resent the comment on page 2 about newer cars being easier to work on than older cars, and 10000 codes to tell you whats wrong... NOT the case. Codes dont tell you whats wrong not to mention a 1970 camaro proably had 100 feet of wire to power EVERYTHING on the car and every inch of wiring was easily accessable, and a new car has 1000' in ONE harness between all the circuits and 90% of the harness is burried deep under the dash or behind interior pannels or pinched deep down in the trans tunnel above the trans and thats not even mentioning communication bus's, even with a labscope fast enough to see communication, you still have no idea if the communication you see is the right communication, add in the fact there are brains that decide what happens, its no longer a switch on the dash with a wire running to the back of the headlamps, it goes into a brain. Plus something like this could be ANYTHING! one little arc inside the pcm jumping from a coil driver circuit to another circuit could freak the pcm out and kill the vehicle... this is not just a matter of finding the circuit thats doing it, its locating WHERE its doing it and why, which can be boarderline impossible sometimes.
?
amen bro!!!!

to the op, i feel so bad for you, and all the problems youve had with this stealership, and in trying to get ur truck done right. i would however, kill myself if i worked at that dealership and had to continually read these kind of longwinded letters and rants of yours! lol
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  #77  
Old 12-21-2010, 02:44 PM
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Re: 6+ weeks - still not fixed, '07 5.7 just dies

Hi Greg its jon with 05 liberty my email is jdp508@yahoo.co.uk
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:31 AM
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THE END... for me at least

There is nothing I hate more than seeing a thread like this one without the resolution being shared... so I realized I never updated the final "resolution" for my dilemma here.

After exactly 6 months of the vehicle being dropped off at the dealership for the 10th or so time and my refusal to drive it again until it was fixed, the dealership KREBS DODGE in Gibsonia, PA called to tell me to piss off and pick up my vehicle. They claimed it could not be fixed and they were done trying. I picked up our vehicle with over 1500 miles on the odometer since I had dropped it off, and with previously discussed damage to the interior not repaired left quite pissed off. AVOID KREBS DODGE AT ALL COST. The owner told me to sue him if I wanted resolution. Chris Krebs would be selling shoes at Payless if his father didn't start that dealership in my opinion.

Back to the Jeep. I own a GMC truck and while hanging around a GM forum I mentioned my issue there. Up pops a Mopar sponsored drift team owner and former SAE Engineer for Chrysler. He tells me how his Chrysler 300 had the same problem and he nailed the diagnosis in his first attempt... he is my hero and Chrysler is worse off without him in my opinion.

Long story short, the piss poor design of the gas tank in my former Jeep was the culprit. Since there is no overflow in the filler neck, if a gas pump doesn't shut off correctly, as the gas pours over your quarter panel it also spits into the vent tube for the EVAP system. Eventually the charcoal canister becomes drenched in gasoline apparently when it's supposed to only be sucking fumes back into the intake and causes some sort of a vapor lock? My technical grasp of the actual problem area is weak if you can't tell, but the diagnosis was spot on.

I'm one of those guys who has ignored the "Don't Top Off" warning on gas pumps for decades but apparently Jeep doesn't want you to top off. To test the theory of failure, after the Jeep stalled I took the gas cap off and drove for two days without another stalling issue. Thinking it might be as simple as a new gas cap, I tried it unsuccessfully. Every time we filled the tank without topping off, it stalled a dozen times before the next fill up. However, when we stopped short of a full tank when refilling - IT NEVER STALLED AGAIN.

The responsible thing would have been to have the gas tank replaced (according to the gentleman helping me online the entire thing was one assembly and the solid state device in the filler neck that failed could not be replaced individually so he replaced his 3 times). However, seeing as how we'd be without a vehicle long enough and did not want to deal with another service department, we waited for the lawsuit to settle and traded it in on another brand vehicle.

Our attorney did what I'd consider a good job given our situation, but in the end Chrysler cut us a check for $6k for our troubles and told us to piss off like the dealership did. I liked this Jeep more than the other two Mopar products I'd owned up until this failure started, however I'll never purchase another one again simply because of how the organization as a whole treated our problem. According to the many attorneys we spoke with, Chrysler is THE WORST when it comes to resolving customer complaints / lemon resolutions / etc. Basically their lifetime power train warranty is about useless as I've learned the hard way.

So, we drove our Jeep for another 5 months until the lawsuit was settled, took a bath on our trade in despite being a low mileage 4 year old vehicle thanks to the mile long service records showing on its history, and bought a another brand vehicle. Unfortunately, my goal of having this Jeep crushed for safety was not Chrysler's so my prayers go out to the new owner of the death trap.

THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO TRIED TO HELP AND CONSOLE MY FRUSTRATIONS OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS WITH THIS THING! I would have posted this sooner, but to be honest I was so disgusted with it all it took a few months for me to be able to spend my free time talking about it!

I hope ALL OF YOU have better results with your Jeep. I do miss certain aspects of the vehicle and the new ones look so tempting, but until the day comes when I can afford 2-3 backup vehicles I'm afraid the SRT-8 I've always wanted to cruise around in is off my dream ride list!

My sincerest thank you to everyone on this board - this is by far the greatest forum I've been a part of and it is the one reason I wish I still owned a Jeep.

Greg
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:35 AM
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Re: 6+ weeks - still not fixed, '07 5.7 just dies

One thing just to clarify - in my bashing of Krebs Doge, I want to be fair... the manager of the service department had his heart in the right place. He knew my vehicle was damaged by his team, but his owner, Chris Krebs, would not allow them to make the repairs he wanted to. The poor guy had worked there for 25+ years and this was the first vehicle he had to send back "not repaired" and I believe him. Sadly, I'd still recommend avoiding the dealership simply because the owner is ruining the efforts of his team, some of which were really good people in my opinion.
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:09 PM
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Re: 6+ weeks - still not fixed, '07 5.7 just dies

sorry to revive this, but is funny to see how similar some dealerships behave, even from other countries, they always try to rip you off. Thanks God my jeep is out of warranty, and my local mechanic bends over backwards to get it fix, he has never ever told me "I donīt know..." he just keeps trying hehe. BTW, I have your same model, Iīm crossing fingers this doesnīt happen to me, but the interior Christmas lights problem already started :S
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:00 PM
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I actually have the resolution. Has this on my 07 as well and the fix was...aluminum foil!! Haha yup! I guess the PCM harness emits a small EMP that shuts our jeeps down temporarily. My dealer went through a new PCM and harness, new plugs and coils, and a whole discussion w Jeep engineers. Its been 8000 miles and not one problem. The harness needs to be wrapped in the back and all the exposed wires on each coil
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:57 AM
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Re: 6+ weeks - still not fixed, '07 5.7 just dies

Sorry to hear about the troubling experience. I had the opposite experience, and am very satisfied with Chryslers response and my dealer who was most helpful. When my rear ELSD diff gave out and needed rebuilding over a year after the warrantee expired, I contacted Chrysler and within a day they responded. They took care of the entire rebuild cost since I had all scheduled maint. records, and the work was completed the following day by the dealer.
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:46 PM
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:23 PM
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Re: 6+ weeks - still not fixed, '07 5.7 just dies

My wife had exactly the same problem with her car just 'dying' at high speed low speed, whenever, garage couldnt fix it and in the end after weeks and weeks it finally 'died' when she was in the middle of a turn on a roundabout (european GMC in the UK) right outside the dealership. My wife got the car restarted limped it acrosss the road and tore the dealership owner a new one there and then - an older guy, seasoned mechanic suggested that the air intake idle valve was shot. Replaced it no further issues - still sold the car on real quick after the fix, but that single air intake valve could have killed somebody.
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