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Old 01-24-2014, 09:20 AM
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QT1 did not work?

Hi
I have a 2009 3.7L 4X4 Laredo. I tried to pull out a private car which got stuck on the dunes and while towing and trying to pull, I sank myself and had to be pulled out by a Land Cruiser Toyota...

I noticed that while the 2 rear wheels lost traction, the 2 front wheels were stuck and were not moving at all. I thought the QT1 should recognize tires which lost traction and power should be transferred automatically to those which have. However, the 2 rear wheels were sliding while the 2 in the front did not move at all - so the Jeep was stuck - like a private one...

Does the above description make sense? Do I have a problem in my system or it indeed may happen given such circumstances? Have to understand...was quite a humiliation there...with all of my friends in their Toyota pulling out both the private car and the Jeep .....

Thanks!
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arik_zuckerman View Post
Hi I have a 2009 3.7L 4X4 Laredo. I tried to pull out a private car which got stuck on the dunes and while towing and trying to pull, I sank myself and had to be pulled out by a Land Cruiser Toyota... I noticed that while the 2 rear wheels lost traction, the 2 front wheels were stuck and were not moving at all. I thought the QT1 should recognize tires which lost traction and power should be transferred automatically to those which have. However, the 2 rear wheels were sliding while the 2 in the front did not move at all - so the Jeep was stuck - like a private one... Does the above description make sense? Do I have a problem in my system or it indeed may happen given such circumstances? Have to understand...was quite a humiliation there...with all of my friends in their Toyota pulling out both the private car and the Jeep ..... Thanks!
Sounds like normal operation. The QDII system can (almost) transfer torque as you suggest. The basic all wheel drive system you have is much more likely to get stuck, and relies on the brakes to try and transfer torque.

If it's any consolation, the Toyota certainly cost more than your rig...
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Old 01-24-2014, 03:46 PM
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Re: QT1 did not work?

Thanks for your quick answer. It is very disappointing...if I understand you correctly, the ABS failed to brake the rear wheels in a way that would have caused the power to get to the front wheels (or the QTI failed to recognize the status so it did not activate the ABS). ..either way, I made such a silly buy. This sand was not that serious, and any activation of the 4 wheels would have pushed the car out. I bought it also for its so called off-road capabilities and its 4X4. Actually, when I really needed its "4X4" it was a "2X4"...simply a sad joke. BTW, regarding your nice consolation, I could buy for the $ I spent on this one, 3 old Toyota like the one that pulled me out Anyway, many thanks for the information, it will cost me I'm sure going to replace this car.
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:00 PM
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Re: QT1 did not work?

Actually the model you bought is NOT 4x4 its AWD. Mine I had below never even got close to getting stuck, sand, snow, and mud. So yes, you made a silly buy REAL 4x4 jeeps would have been ready to pull the toyota out.

Just make sure you dont have your frustrations pointed at the car or the brand, if you dont do your research before signing on the dotted line, you cannot blame the car for your inability to know what you are actually buying. Just a humble suggestion for your next vehicle
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Old 01-25-2014, 03:35 AM
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Re: QT1 did not work?

1) well, you're so right. I made a silly buy and I'm the only one to be blamed for that...
2) Yet, it's worth mentioning that before buying and while considering your model versus mine (better performance versus better MPG), and as I did not plan to crawl the rocks/climb steep/etc so having no 4-low seemed ok, while reading on the QT1 (also in JeepGarage BTW), I got the impression that it should have handled well the situation that I faced which was pretty basic...so I did think that my requirements/expectations are basic and therefore should be aligned with what I bought - If the front wheels were moving and the car would have still being stuck - then fine, however, at least according to the "theoretical spec" the system should have identified that the rear wheels are sliding so ABS should have blocked them and front wheels should have at least moving...this did not happen.

Anyway, it does not matter, I should have made a much better research, and I did buy something that obviously does not meet my needs. BTW, I did consider then to buy the CRD which I believed would be a win-win. However, the WK CRDs were rarely imported to my country, so could not find one. Now, as importing WK2 to my country is pretty expensive, and WK are too old to be imported, I'm pretty stuck...maybe I will try to find a local Liberty, it's just that I liked the GC so much

Thanks for your feedback!
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Old 01-25-2014, 08:31 AM
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The brakes can only do so much when used as a method of preventing wheel slip. It sounds like the front was wedged in good, so as you applied gas to try and get enough power to break it free, the rear brakes wouldn't have been able to stop the rear from spinning.

While the QT1 system isn't as good as the higher end models, I wouldn't give up on your new ride just yet! It is still fairly capable. What is your off-road driving experience? No amount of gadgetry is going to take the place of experience, and it could be with more practice with your jeep you'll learn how to take advantage of your system. Did you have your tires aired down? Simply recognizing you can't rush in and save the day pulling people out when they get stuck could be enough. You could be fine driving yourself around in the dunes.

I didn't realize the land cruiser that saved the day was an older model. As alternate consolation, your ride is much more comfortable and probably doesn't smell as bad.
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Old 01-25-2014, 08:52 AM
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Re: QT1 did not work?

Another problem is that for the brake control system to work, it has to detect slip first - and on sand the key to not getting stuck is to keep your momentum. So in essence, by the time the brake control system figured out that you had wheel slippage, you had probably lost too much forward momentum and just sank where you were.

Also, what kind of tires were you running? Were they aired down for the sand? Lots of other issues can factor into your success in sand than the type of 4WD system you have.
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Old 01-25-2014, 02:57 PM
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Re: QT1 did not work?

Indeed, I was not stuck while I was driving the dunes. I also stopped the car a few times and continued without problems. I got stuck when I was trying to pull out the private car. It was not pulled out, I increased the power and was digging in. Then while I was trying to go out, I could not. So dr.lee.baugh's assumption to what possibly happened ("sounds like the front was wedged in good, so as you applied ...rear brakes wouldn't have been able to stop the rear from spinning. ") is most likely correct and aligned with what I saw.

BTW, when the Toyota was trying for the first time to pull the private out, it also could not, and also was digging. However, it could get out, changed its position, tried again, and moved it out (and then the same with pulling the Jeep - a few failures which it was digging itself, however, succeeded to get out until I was successfully pulled out).

I live in a very sandy area which I drive almost every day, during the summer it's sandy, during the winter it's muddy of course. I pulled out friends in this area before with the Jeep but not more than a few times. It's correct that I would not be stuck there if I had not tried to pull the private out and it's also correct that I did not have my wheels aired down. I could live well with this gear if the main limit was not trying to pull out stuck cars, it's not that my main target is to save the day.. however, as the conditions may turn in my area to be very sandy/muddy, and as I drive there on a daily basis, having this experience, I lost my confidence in this car to be able to handle mud/sand in different very possible situations (not necessarily pulling cars out) and knowing that every time I stop or in a more challenging situation, then the so called 4X4 capability is more likely to be lost just in that very timing that you would like it to work more than anything else..

BTW, is it possible to upgrade from QT1 to QT2/d without changing the Case Transmission (and of course without changing the Engine...)? If I understand it's an electrical update? or requires also physical parts? possible at all?

Thank you so much.
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Old 01-25-2014, 03:43 PM
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Re: QT1 did not work?

It is not just a software update.

QDII has a 2-speed transfer case and ELSDs in the axles, so both those would have to be changed.

A lot of people talk about swapping them, but it never works out to be economically viable.

You could look into putting in lockers, but it's still not going to help you with the front/rear torque split.

If you really want to upgrade to an extremely capable 4WD system, your probably looking at buying a new vehicle as the most cost-effective option.
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Old 01-26-2014, 03:24 PM
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Re: QT1 did not work?

Very well, I will indeed look at replacing it. Many thanks for your feedback. It has been very helpul and highly appreciated.
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