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  #25  
Old 07-01-2012, 05:27 PM
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Re: Aerodynamics, Anyone?

Yes, the boundry area makes sense. Wouldn't it be nice if the whole vehicle could indicate zero mph at 80 mph, true? That mirror thing was just a whim. I've taken them off, since they were used anyway. I knew that wasn't right, but thought I could use them as a deflectors instead of a VG's. What do you think about some small deflectors on the trailing edges of the mirrors....say top and bottom? When I get a little time, I am going to start looking under the chassis, especially in the area of the side skirts. I've kind of looked it over (top side) and I can't see much else that I could do without making it look like crap. Do you have any other ideas that might warrant a little tinkering? I also want to do a few more trips without doing too much more, just to make sure that what I've already done is for long term "real" and not just a one or two time deal. This week is pretty much out, because of the 4th, but next week I'll do at least one other run and see how it works out.
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  #26  
Old 07-01-2012, 07:14 PM
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Re: Aerodynamics, Anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepgcoman View Post
Yes, the boundry area makes sense. Wouldn't it be nice if the whole vehicle could indicate zero mph at 80 mph, true? That mirror thing was just a whim. I've taken them off, since they were used anyway. I knew that wasn't right, but thought I could use them as a deflectors instead of a VG's. What do you think about some small deflectors on the trailing edges of the mirrors....say top and bottom? When I get a little time, I am going to start looking under the chassis, especially in the area of the side skirts. I've kind of looked it over (top side) and I can't see much else that I could do without making it look like crap. Do you have any other ideas that might warrant a little tinkering? I also want to do a few more trips without doing too much more, just to make sure that what I've already done is for long term "real" and not just a one or two time deal. This week is pretty much out, because of the 4th, but next week I'll do at least one other run and see how it works out.
Great, keep us posted on how things work out! I tried putting little boundary layer trips on the side mirrors before on my Toyota Highlander and didn't see any real-world gains from it. Side view mirrors are probably the hardest thing to design to be aerodynamic because of the requirements by the DMV and what-not. In general, the smaller the better, but there aren't many retrofit/modifications available that would help. I don't think there is much you can do without drastically reducing the usability of the mirrors.

Regarding the boundary condition, the whole vehicle does register zero at the surface, relative to the moving car. When you take it relative to the air in non-windy conditions, the car is 80mph (as it should be) and the air is at zero. It all depends on your reference point. What causes drag is basically how we're shearing the air and we're pushing it apart. That happens because of the difference in velocity between the air and the vehicle and the frontal area of the car, respectively. There's no way to avoid it completely unless there is no air, like in space.
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  #27  
Old 07-02-2012, 06:50 AM
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Re: Aerodynamics, Anyone?

I read an article way back about spoilers. It said something like if you had a spoiler about 1 inch high, it would "pull" the air back down behind the vehicle,smoothing the airflow. I've wondered about the spoiler for this,and have even asked- with no responses- if it has any noticable affects.... What do you think?
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Old 07-02-2012, 10:53 AM
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Re: Aerodynamics, Anyone?

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Originally Posted by briando View Post
ok so i've got a silly dream. i'm looking for an aftermarket front end for my cherokee that looks like a cow catcher off a locomotive. not actually sharp and pointy but that sort of hard core get out of my way look. thought?

haha my buddy and i were talking about this the other night. just move mfs out the way!!
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Old 07-02-2012, 09:05 PM
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Re: Aerodynamics, Anyone?

"Move!........get out the way, get out the way.......Move!"
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  #30  
Old 07-02-2012, 09:29 PM
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Re: Aerodynamics, Anyone?

4.whoa, I think you should make up a temporary spoiler and give it a try. IMO, that's the way we learn.....along with input from the good folks on these forums. Who knows, maybe you'll catch the tinker bug.
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  #31  
Old 07-02-2012, 09:43 PM
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Re: Aerodynamics, Anyone?

Oh, i tinker alot. Ive thought about seeing if i can find an old one from a early 90's camaro or even one from a. *GASP* dare i say it........ Aztec.

I knew a guy way back that made one by glueing foam to his car, then filing it to shape and bondoing it. It was pretty much permenant and he.kept it VERY subdued,but it made people look twice.

Let me add- I really like that CF oem copy,but its too rich for by blood at the moment,without knowing if it will help on the highway.
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  #32  
Old 07-03-2012, 10:54 AM
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Re: Aerodynamics, Anyone?

I saw a rear deflector on justforjeeps.com under the OEM accessories. Is this what you're referring to, 4.whoa?
http://www.justforjeeps.com/airdere2.html
and with a little modification, that might be able to help eliminate some of the flow-separation issues in the back.
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Old 07-03-2012, 02:52 PM
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Re: Aerodynamics, Anyone?

Pretty neat, and not too expensive. Bet it could help somewhat. Wonder if it would do any better than the Airtabs?
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  #34  
Old 07-03-2012, 03:22 PM
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Re: Aerodynamics, Anyone?

All those "improvements" look pretty stupid. Just trade you jeep for aomething with better mpgs if you dont like what you are getting now, dont make it look like a clown car
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Old 07-08-2012, 08:31 PM
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Re: Aerodynamics, Anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verminator View Post
I saw a rear deflector on justforjeeps.com under the OEM accessories. Is this what you're referring to, 4.whoa?
http://www.justforjeeps.com/airdere2.html
and with a little modification, that might be able to help eliminate some of the flow-separation issues in the back.
No, i was meaning this: It's here all carbonfiber spoiler wk1

It looks pretty tight, but dont know how it "works"
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Old 07-08-2012, 08:46 PM
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Re: Aerodynamics, Anyone?

I found the article i was remembering-key part in red:


Spoilers and Air Dams
"The two hotspots where there's the most room for improvement on mostcars are the lower front and upper rear," says AeroDyn's Gary Eaker.Racers realized this as far back as the mid '60s and developed rearspoilers and front air dams to help their cars maintain traction. A rearspoiler is a device attached to the car's upper rear surface (usuallythe trunk lid) with no gap between it and the bodywork. If it has a gap,it's considered a wing, which is far more complex.


As its name implies, a spoiler's purpose is to "spoil" the fast, smooth,low-drag airflow coming off the roof. By sticking up into the airflow, aspoiler causes the airflow to detach and separate, reducing its velocityand creating a pressure rise that decreases the rear lift tendencies.Although a rear spoiler primarily adds downforce, in some situations itcan also decrease drag, depending on the spoiler's height, angle, andlength of extension off the deck. The more vertical the spoiler's angle,the more the downforce at the price of increased drag. Exact resultsvary per vehicle and can only be determined by cut-and-try testing, butsome studies suggest that the most downforce is achieved with a spoilerheight that's about 8 percent of the car's wheelbase. That means about8-9 inches for a 106-inch wheelbase. For any drag decrease, the spoilerheight will usually have to be less than 1 inch, but up to 2 inchesthere is usually no drag penalty.
  • Aero tricks can even aid boxy '34 Roadsters like Paul Vanderley's213-mph salt racer. Massaged in AeroDyn's wind tunnel, its drag is downthere with Nextel Cup speedway cars. Bellypans are not allowed in theclass, but everything underneath mounts higher than the framerails, therear wheels are pulled in, and the inlet scoop's in the nose. ClassicMoon discs still get it done too.


  • The three most important things the average hot rodder can do to adddownforce are to bolt on a front air dam, install a rear spoiler, anddial-in a slight amount of front-end rake. The rear spoiler causesearlier flow separation over the rear deck. A flat underbody and aslight rake act like a venturi, speeding the airflow under the car.Meanwhile, the air dam reduces airflow under the car to further create alow-pressure wake.


  • With its sleek extended nose, filled-in rear window, and high-mountedwing on streamlined supports, Dodge's Daytona was the firstwind-tunnel-refined stock car to run 200 mph on the superspeedways.Carefully designed to both reduce drag and increase downforce, it andits sister Plymouth Superbird became so dominant that NASCAR killed themoff in 1971.


  • Airplanes fly because of lift generated by their wings. Air moves fasterover the wing's upper curved surface (as shown over the roof of thiscar) than the lower flat surface (the air shown under the car). Thefaster moving air creates a localized low-pressure area. With denser airunderneath, lift is generated. Full-bodied production cars are shapedvery much like an airfoil so they have natural lift. Good for anairplane, bad for a car.

  • One of the most important factors in determining a car's aerodynamicperformance, frontal area is the car's total cross-sectional area asviewed head-on. Think of it as the size of the hole it cuts through theair. It encompasses all projections, including tires, fender bulges,side mirrors, scoops, handles, and front air dams. Compare the sleekGuldstrand Signature Series '03 Corvette with Rich Johnson's boxy '57Chevy. Which do you think has more frontal area?


  • Extractors behind the fenders not only help cool brakes, they also helpget air out of the fenders. Another possibility is hood extractors thatwhisk air out of the engine compartment. If you can create lowerpressure underneath the hood compared to the pressure on top, it's freedownforce with no drag penalty. These are on Guldstrand's 50thAnniversary Corvette.

Read more: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/b...#ixzz205LkUXRz
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