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  #13  
Old 09-20-2012, 07:17 PM
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Re: 4.7 turbo!

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Originally Posted by FlyinRyan View Post
KB kits were discontinued because of low demand and poor tuning solutions at the time. There was at one point a turbo kit for the 4.7 Dakptas however the shop that sold them went out of business.

At a minimum, you will need 42 lb injectors, 2 bar MAP, and SCT, and a wideband capable of OBDII datalogging. Colder plugs would be a good idea. I can do boosted tuning for 455.00 .

I would keep the boost at ~7 psi.
By injectors do you mean fuel injector like water or meth to cool the turbo? and what is a 2 bar map? I also read that the 4.7s dont take well to a big turbo, that a small turbo with low boost like no more than 10 is the way to go. Ide think you would want a some what bigger turbo with a v8 though.
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Old 09-20-2012, 07:23 PM
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Re: 4.7 turbo!

You could probably put a big turbo on if you change your pistons etc
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Old 09-21-2012, 06:19 PM
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Re: 4.7 turbo!

The 2005-07 4.7's are rated at 235 hp and 290 ft-lbs. The 2008-09 are 305 hp.

An extremely efficient engine will gain 50% in hp with 7 lbs of boost. A stock engine is not "extremely efficient" and as such will only gain around 7-9hp per pound of boost. These numbers are well known, and proven, in the turbo world, so i am quite confident that they're accurate. Yes, there's always some wiggle room but not that much. 7lbs will put a 235 hp engine into the 280-300hp range. Proper sizing of the turbo will ensure a strong torque curve and no lag.

Turbo sizing is very important for a street driven vehicle. Smaller ones will spool faster but have a limit of possible horsepower. Big ones will produce more AIRFLOW and thus boost but if you don't have enough airflow through the engine to spool it properly, you'll have huge lag (the time between pushing the throttle to the floor and the turbo spooling up to produce usuable boost) The nice thing about turbos, is that they are very efficient at producing power and torque. Add that to an engine that is also designed for torque and you have a recipe for fun! 300hp isn't alot these days, but imagine that the same engine now makes 380-390 ft-lbs of torque! Torque gets you moving,so you'd have the off the line grunt of a Hemi, without the weight penalty.

You need one sized for a 4.7 litre engine (cylinder count doesn't matter) with a hp goal of around 300-350 at 7lbs of boost. You use that information to read a compressor map for a given turbo and find out if its suitable.




Going to ebay and buying the biggest turbo for the lowest price will give you terrible performance on the street and a possible blown engine.

Here's an example:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg turbo_compressor_map_boost_curve.jpg (115.3 KB, 19 views)
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Old 11-22-2014, 07:27 PM
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Re: 4.7 turbo!

I have spent countless hours building a really cool exhaust for the T-3 turbo I installed with 6lbs boost , wastegate, BOV etc. I had the ECM redone without cats to let me run off road and now I am lost!!! Put everything Anyone can think of and when I TRY to drive it and when it starts to boost it falls flat on its face,starts poppin and goes big time lean! Can anyone help me??
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Old 11-22-2014, 07:59 PM
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Re: 4.7 turbo!

Don't do that too many times or you'll be pulling the engine down and doing a rebuild. If you're getting a "lean pop" you're probably somewhere up around 16-17/1 air fuel ratio. You should be down around 12/1 or so. Are you using bigger injectors? Have you had it tuned for the turbo.....mainly timing and fuel mixture?
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Old 11-22-2014, 09:19 PM
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Re: 4.7 turbo!

Thanks for reading, the ECU was reprogrammed using my stock components. It was done by Dave at B&G Performance/Arrington Performance!


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Old 11-22-2014, 09:21 PM
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Re: 4.7 turbo!

Also note: this is at very slow speeds and I/2 block test is all, right back to garage😣


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Old 11-23-2014, 08:28 PM
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Re: 4.7 turbo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by magna~forma View Post
By injectors do you mean fuel injector like water or meth to cool the turbo? and what is a 2 bar map? I also read that the 4.7s dont take well to a big turbo, that a small turbo with low boost like no more than 10 is the way to go. Ide think you would want a some what bigger turbo with a v8 though.
What Ryan is talking about is replacing the actual fuel injectors with ones that will flow more fuel. The maximum flow rate of the stock ones probably do not support the amount of fuel required when running a boosted engine.

The 2 bar MAP Sensor will allow it to send the correct (boost) data to the PCM. The range of the stock one is insufficient for a boosted engine.

Wide band O2 Sensors (and a way to read their output) is critical so you can get accurate air/fuel mixture readings. The stock "narrow band" O2's are not as accurate, and also the "read range" is not sufficient for a boosted engine.

Water/methanol alcohol injection has been around for years and is normally used on forced induction (and extreme high performance) apllications to cool the air/fuel mixture which is heated by the compressing of the incoming air by the super/turbo charger. It also allows more ignition timing to be run because of the oooler charge and reduces the chance of destructive detonation. Mix is usually about 50-50, distilled water and methanol alcohol.

Most of the late model Chrysler engines don't allow for the full benefit of forced induction, because of the top piston ring land being too close to the top of the piston. If you run too much boost, or run too lean for very long, you run the risk of the top ring land failing. Then you get to build a "real" forced induction engine.
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Old 11-23-2014, 09:35 PM
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Re: 4.7 turbo!

Thankyou again, I have the wide band 4 wire O2 sensors, (4) total. I believe the way it looks it is a CA emissions car? How do I go from a 3 bar (3 wires) MAP to a (2 wire)2 bar MAP like you stated in your reply? Do you think I should put larger injectors in, if so what size , then reset air and fuel? It's only a T-3 with 6 lbs of boost. Last, do you think the EGR could be part of the problem?


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Old 11-23-2014, 10:06 PM
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Re: 4.7 turbo!

youre gonna blow it. KB was developing a sc kit on the 3.7 and it blew @ 5psi with all the supporting mods and tune. only lasted 6 dyno runs before it went. Keep in mind the 3.7 is basically a 4.7 with 2 fewer cylinders. this means they share internals like pistons and rods. but that 5 psi on the 3.7 netted 302hp and 323ftlbs when corrected at the crank.

the liberty they did this on was an older one that put down 159hp stock on 31's w/ the old 4 speed auto. so looking at almost 30% DL loss there.

AT best looking for 25% loss there but at the wheels made 227hp and 243ftlbs on 5spi.

Airram performance has all the internals you'd need to build the motor for boost and you can easily run aftermarket mustang injectors and a walboro fuel pump. I believe you can also get custom sct tuning for it as well.

I hope you can figure it out, im looking to boost my 3.7 on 10 to 12psi after I can get it built, im really just waitng to see if sct can tune it
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Old 11-23-2014, 10:10 PM
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Re: 4.7 turbo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAart View Post
Thanks for reading, the ECU was reprogrammed using my stock components. It was done by Dave at B&G Performance/Arrington Performance!


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B&G cant tune to save their life. there is another thread talking about it. SCT is the way to go
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  #24  
Old 11-25-2014, 09:24 PM
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Re: 4.7 turbo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAart View Post
Thankyou again, I have the wide band 4 wire O2 sensors, (4) total. I believe the way it looks it is a CA emissions car? How do I go from a 3 bar (3 wires) MAP to a (2 wire)2 bar MAP like you stated in your reply? Do you think I should put larger injectors in, if so what size , then reset air and fuel? It's only a T-3 with 6 lbs of boost. Last, do you think the EGR could be part of the problem?


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I am not familiar with your 4.7 application. The items I commented on above are basic generalizations for most late model, computer controlled engines, when going from normally aspirated to forced induction. The piston ring land issue is common on our engines, but may not be a problem on other makes. On your injectors, you'll need to know what the flow on your stock ones are, what the current air/fuel ratio is, and then calculate how much more fuel you'll need. Then go with the injector that provides the proper fuel flow. I would guess, since you're using relatively low boost, that the next size up from stock may very well be adequate. After the proper injectors are installed, then proper tuning at all throttle settings will be possible.

As far as the MAP Sensor goes, since no one is currently making a forced induction kit for your application, you may not be able to find one for your application. I know they make them for the 5.7 though. This may be a stumbling block you'll have to try and resolve.

The electronically controlled EGR System reduces oxides of nitrogen by cooling the combustion mix in the cylinder, which then reduces NOX and dilutes the mixture to an amount determined by the amount of recirculation that is commanded by the PCM. The system on our Jeeps is designed for normally aspirated engines, and could very well cause you issues with the forced induction. If you disable it (which may be possible by the tuner...but he'd be hanging his arse out if he gets caught), you will for sure get a DTC plus, if you're in California, or many other states, the smog police will be hot on your trail, as the EGR System is a critical/major component of the emissions sytem.

I am curious why you didn't just go with a nitrous oxide system? There may be a company that makes a system for your engine. I know they're readily available for the 5.7's for around $500. If they have a kit for your application, they will have already addressed the fuel mixture problem and come up with a solution......how much more fuel must be added (injector sizes) with the various "pills" (jets) installed.....i.e. 50 hp, 100 hp, 150 hp, etc.
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