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  #25  
Old 11-25-2014, 10:10 PM
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Re: 4.7 turbo!

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Originally Posted by jeepgcoman View Post
I am not familiar with your 4.7 application. The items I commented on above are basic generalizations for most late model, computer controlled engines, when going from normally aspirated to forced induction. The piston ring land issue is common on our engines, but may not be a problem on other makes. On your injectors, you'll need to know what the flow on your stock ones are, what the current air/fuel ratio is, and then calculate how much more fuel you'll need. Then go with the injector that provides the proper fuel flow. I would guess, since you're using relatively low boost, that the next size up from stock may very well be adequate. After the proper injectors are installed, then proper tuning at all throttle settings will be possible.

As far as the MAP Sensor goes, since no one is currently making a forced induction kit for your application, you may not be able to find one for your application. I know they make them for the 5.7 though. This may be a stumbling block you'll have to try and resolve.

The electronically controlled EGR System reduces oxides of nitrogen by cooling the combustion mix in the cylinder, which then reduces NOX and dilutes the mixture to an amount determined by the amount of recirculation that is commanded by the PCM. The system on our Jeeps is designed for normally aspirated engines, and could very well cause you issues with the forced induction. If you disable it (which may be possible by the tuner...but he'd be hanging his arse out if he gets caught), you will for sure get a DTC plus, if you're in California, or many other states, the smog police will be hot on your trail, as the EGR System is a critical/major component of the emissions sytem.

I am curious why you didn't just go with a nitrous oxide system? There may be a company that makes a system for your engine. I know they're readily available for the 5.7's for around $500. If they have a kit for your application, they will have already addressed the fuel mixture problem and come up with a solution......how much more fuel must be added (injector sizes) with the various "pills" (jets) installed.....i.e. 50 hp, 100 hp, 150 hp, etc.
very well said bro. however I think the map will be fine on 6 psi as its only a 1bar sensor and should be good to like 16max. also I think the egr will be fine as well, but may need to have its settings tweeked for boost.

the biggest issue in our applications will be keeping the temps of the ring lands low enough so not to break them. our ring lings are a really pathetic 1/8th of an inch thick and anything more then 4 psi will blow em, as I stated earlier KB was prototyping a s/c for the 3.7 and dropped it for this very reason....

this is the jeep in question that KB was doing



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  #26  
Old 11-26-2014, 08:21 PM
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Talking Re: 4.7 turbo!

Sir:
Just a little backround history! At least the best I can recall! I am 66 yrs old, been around cars all my life, worked in by Dad's shop from 8 yrs old till retiring 6 yrs ago because of health! Ate too many ORANGES in Vietnm I guess. I have been building race cars and street rods for the last 25 yrs, along with racing myself. Had a A/A 23T ford with a normally aspirated 500 cu in 1300 hp motor that ran 200 mph in 6.9 sec.
I am fully aware of what engine cyl temp can do to pistons, along with what nosing over feels like. This piece has not been over 3k rpm because of that .
The reason I went with a Turbo is because no one has that I know of. I also built headers for many yrs and love a challenge, boy this one was. The whole turbo is where the air box was and the entire 3" exhaust in and out from the turbo and ex manifolds (2.5 " to 3") are on the right side. I also installed a intercooler,BOV,and wastegate. Done what i thought was right. Also wrapped all pipes in insulation. Oh ya, the 2 fire starter cats under the car left me for places unknown, still looking for them?
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  #27  
Old 11-26-2014, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by MAart View Post
Sir:
Just a little backround history! At least the best I can recall! I am 66 yrs old, been around cars all my life, worked in by Dad's shop from 8 yrs old till retiring 6 yrs ago because of health! Ate too many ORANGES in Vietnm I guess. I have been building race cars and street rods for the last 25 yrs, along with racing myself. Had a A/A 23T ford with a normally aspirated 500 cu in 1300 hp motor that ran 200 mph in 6.9 sec.
I am fully aware of what engine cyl temp can do to pistons, along with what nosing over feels like. This piece has not been over 3k rpm because of that .
The reason I went with a Turbo is because no one has that I know of. I also built headers for many yrs and love a challenge, boy this one was. The whole turbo is where the air box was and the entire 3" exhaust in and out from the turbo and ex manifolds (2.5 " to 3") are on the right side. I also installed a intercooler,BOV,and wastegate. Done what i thought was right. Also wrapped all pipes in insulation. Oh ya, the 2 fire starter cats under the car left me for places unknown, still looking for them?
No is questioning your methods. We are just stating facts that the 4.7 is a completely different animal then what you have worked on. This is an engine that needs forged internals to be reliable on boost. You need the sensors to go with it. Tuning to go as well. I know you had b&g do it but like i said earlier, they cant tune to save their lives. Air ram did extensive testing and found b&g to be slower then the stock tune. A custom tune thru sct is the way to go. If you need parts give airram.com a look.

But honestly to me your having a fueling issue if getting the lean pop. Im running mustang cobra injectors on my 3.7. They plug and play no prob. And they are good for 400 hp
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Old 11-26-2014, 09:22 PM
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Re: 4.7 turbo!

Thanks for the info, fuel ratios are my belief also, you input gives me a place to look also! Keep you posted! 😉


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Old 11-26-2014, 09:44 PM
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Re: 4.7 turbo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strongjeff View Post
very well said bro. however I think the map will be fine on 6 psi as its only a 1bar sensor and should be good to like 16max. also I think the egr will be fine as well, but may need to have its settings tweeked for boost.
You're probably right on the MAP Sensor, but I am not too sure on the EGR, as I don't think the tuner folks will be able to set it correctly, and since it's part of the emission system, they may not want to mess with it. In the end, if it does work, it wouldn't be a problem tuning for it though.

MAart, you're a youngster, LOL. I've got a few years on you, and have a similar background but mine, aside from building race cars/race transmissions and years of working on "old iron", includes everything from lawn mowers/weed eaters to reciprocating, turbo prop and straight jet aircraft engines. The new automobile stuff is a whole different game. I've stayed away from forced induction on both my Hemi's primarily because of the piston weakness. I've been messing with the Hemi's since 2004 when they first put them in LX vehicles, and there weren't any aftermarket parts available yet. The computers, and how to modify the programming were the big mysteries at the time. When they first started using forced induction on them, many engines were lost, mostly due to lean fuel mixtures, piston top ring land failure and stock 5.7 timing chain tensioners failing, not to mention lack of tuning experience.

I don't think your setup issues are insurmountable but, I think, you'll certainly have to do lots research and ask a lot of questions to some of the forced induction specialists....probably some of the manufacturers that are familiar with the Chrysler piston weakness and sensor issues. Good luck and I hope you get it running right, as it sounds like you've put a ton of work into it. Keep us posted on your progress and findings.
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Old 11-27-2014, 08:23 AM
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Re: 4.7 turbo!

I sure will! Been interesting to say the least!!!!!


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Old 11-29-2014, 09:53 AM
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Re: 4.7 turbo!

Haven't been called a youngster for awhile


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Old 11-29-2014, 09:54 AM
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Re: 4.7 turbo!

Can you guys give me more info on the cobra injectors please?


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  #33  
Old 11-29-2014, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAart View Post
Can you guys give me more info on the cobra injectors please?

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Mine are the factory injectors from the 1999 mustang cobra. Completely plug n play good for 400hp. They are about 26# vs the stock 21.5# and have a better spray pattern. They should help you out a bit. If its still a concern you could go to a 30# or even a 35# injector.

Im running them on the 3.7 to prevent a lean condition at 6k rpms lol
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