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  #13  
Old 09-27-2011, 06:42 AM
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Re: Champion Spark Plugs choices-CC,Iridium,Platinum, or Double Platinum?

Is this "use stock copper core plugs" thing because of the MDS? I replaced mine with the stock stuff, but am just curious.
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Old 09-30-2011, 01:51 PM
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Re: Champion Spark Plugs choices-CC,Iridium,Platinum, or Double Platinum?

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Originally Posted by 4.whoa View Post
Is this "use stock copper core plugs" thing because of the MDS? I replaced mine with the stock stuff, but am just curious.
No. Overall engine performance. [However, if engine stalls out, MDS is likely inoperative.......]
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Old 09-30-2011, 05:16 PM
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Re: Champion Spark Plugs choices-CC,Iridium,Platinum, or Double Platinum?

Don't forget, your Hemi uses 16 plugs. The OEM is going to be the least expensive option, and there is no published benefit of using the more expensive plugs in this application.

The HEMI with MDS is a very well designed package. Changing one item (like different viscosity oil) can make it much less efficient.
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Old 09-30-2011, 06:16 PM
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Re: Champion Spark Plugs choices-CC,Iridium,Platinum, or Double Platinum?

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Originally Posted by Walt View Post
While you are doing a forum search on this, consider the following parameters:
1. Jeep ran 100K mile platinum plugs on the 4.0L I-6 for years (I had 3 of them).
2. I believe the '08 6.1L HEMI SRT-8 comes with 100K mile platinum plugs. The 5.7L comes with 30K mile copper core plugs. Not sure about the V-6 and 4.7L V-8's (two difffernt style plugs in same engine).
I did a quick search and came up with 5 pages worth of posts. Don't know how to link it though. (.....we're approx. same age)
So Walt. What is your sage concensus? My son has a SRT10 with Platinum, and runs like a car with no problems for sure. I just do not understand the engineering explanation why I need to run the copper core? In the end run, most will probably tell me to get a grip with my age of 66 and get a life and make much about nothing. Fine, but the question as stated will most likely not be technically answered. That is fair and I fully understand. I will though at my next spark plug change, will try the Double Platinum that have the resistor built in. Promise to report my results!
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Old 09-30-2011, 08:50 PM
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Re: Champion Spark Plugs choices-CC,Iridium,Platinum, or Double Platinum?

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Originally Posted by oldgeezer View Post
So Walt. What is your sage concensus? .... I just do not understand the engineering explanation why I need to run the copper core? In the end run, most will probably tell me to get a grip with my age of 66 and get a life and make much about nothing... but the question as stated will most likely not be technically answered.....!
I just use the copper core plugs....they work (besides, jeepgcoman recommends them. He's my hero.... ). I read many posts (here and other Jeep WK-related forms) about problems with other plugs after 5-10K miles. I'm not a fanatic, just don't want to introduce a potential for unreliability reported as a causative factor by multiple HEMI owners.

I do not have a definitive explanation why. However, I suspect the copper core plugs have a slightly different internal resistance, but more likely, the inductance and/or capacitance are different. As you may recall, there is a lag / lead with these parameters as the voltage / current builds. ELI the ICEMAN. This firing happens quickly, so it may feed back quickly to the PCM as an abnormal condition. Condition must manifest itself after the tip gap wears a bit. My plugs go in at 0.043" gap and 13 ft-lbs torque.

I'm getting multiple engine-related DTC's as it is (P0133, P0153, P0308, & P0430), so I'm not willing to start another experiment until we cure the root cause of these problems.

I will do this though:
1. I'll try to determine the capacitance and inductance of a copper core plug in the electrical lab this semester. Somebody else will have to do a platinum or iridium plug (I don't have any).
2. I'll try to get an explanation from Chrysler technical people.
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Old 10-02-2011, 03:55 PM
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Re: Champion Spark Plugs choices-CC,Iridium,Platinum, or Double Platinum?

Hi all, new member here. This is an interesting topic since there seem to be so many opinions about it. I have an '09 WK with the 4.7L V8 gen II engine that has 16 plugs.... I'm currently trying to find the recommended spark plugs at an auto store (Bosch Iridium and the Bosch Yttrium) no one seems to carry the exact match... any suggestions?
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Old 10-02-2011, 07:36 PM
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Re: Champion Spark Plugs choices-CC,Iridium,Platinum, or Double Platinum?

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Originally Posted by Malice View Post
...I have an '09 WK with the 4.7L V8 gen II engine that has 16 plugs.... I'm currently trying to find the recommended spark plugs at an auto store (Bosch Iridium and the Bosch Yttrium) no one seems to carry the exact match... any suggestions?
Here's a link with the OEM number. You should be able to cross-reference over to another brand. http://www.wkjeeps.com/wk_sparkplugs.htm

oldgeezer: I checked the resistance of 2 sets of used MOPAR OEM plugs today. Varied between 1.389 and 1.480 ohms. Readings taken from top connection to center electrode. Somebody else can check some other brands for you, if lying around. [Will not be in Physics lab until Thursday.]
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Old 10-02-2011, 08:30 PM
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Re: Champion Spark Plugs choices-CC,Iridium,Platinum, or Double Platinum?

Hi Walt. Thank you for taking the time and effort to continue this thread. I am truly appreciative. Part of the problem is defining the necessiated plugs for the motor in question? As previously stated by myself, perhaps I am stirring the pot for no good reason? Given that other "high performance motors" in the Chysler line recommend Platinum plugs, it is difficult to swallow that the 5.7L Hemi needs only the "inexpensive plugs". Please identify the need or tell me to get a grip and move on to other important subjects. Willing to do so as directed as a newbie.
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Old 10-03-2011, 06:41 PM
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Re: Champion Spark Plugs choices-CC,Iridium,Platinum, or Double Platinum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgeezer View Post
Hi Walt. Thank you for taking the time and effort to continue this thread. I am truly appreciative. Part of the problem is defining the necessiated plugs for the motor in question? As previously stated by myself, perhaps I am stirring the pot for no good reason? Given that other "high performance motors" in the Chysler line recommend Platinum plugs, it is difficult to swallow that the 5.7L Hemi needs only the "inexpensive plugs". Please identify the need or tell me to get a grip and move on to other important subjects. Willing to do so as directed as a newbie.
See my 09/24/11 post. It was a surprise to me that the '05-'08 HEMI's use the 30K miles copper core plugs....particularly after my 4.0L I-6 engines used 100K miles platinum plugs. Seems somewhat anachronistic to me.

I've never heard a good "technical" (i.e., engineering) explanation why only the copper core plugs either (just lots of anecdotal evidence from dissatisfied owners with ongoing problems) that other types (platinum, iridium, E3, etc) do not work as well.

One thing is certain: the counter people at the chain parts stores do not know the basis. The AutoZone and/or AdvanceAuto online catalog called for Champion 3570's and I had to insist on Champion 570's. I can't remember which store since it was the first plug change. IIRC, the 3570's have a single platinum tip. Should not cause a signficant change in inductance, capacitance, or resistance if that were the only change, so it must be something else.

Because they didn't have the 570's in stock and it was Saturday AM, I just drove to the dealer and bought MOPAR plugs. Of course, the dealer's people only use MOPAR copper cores, so there is no reason to expect they would necessarily be well-versed on other brands. I did read somewhere that one person used Motorcraft (Ford) plugs and they were acceptable.

Here's where I'm at now:
1. Jeep expects the spark plugs to be changed at 30K miles. I see no value in paying for exotic spark plugs that I will be changing out in this short interval anyway.
2. I have a lifetime limited powertrain warranty and am currently enforcing it with Chrysler. Because some of these issues appear to be ignition-related, I won't risk losing this position over chasing a possible 0.5hp gain (in a 330hp engine) based on a marketing person's wet dream.
3. My time is valuable: I work fulltime and teach 2 nights per week. Have no time to be performing rework maintenance. In the 2 hrs that I'll spend replacing plugs, I can change both differential fluids and the NV245 transfer case fluid.

Like you, I would like to hear the technical justification also. Maybe the retired guys (eg., you or jeepgcoman) could ask Champion via e-mail. I'm trying to get to Chrysler's HEMI technical people anyway, so I will pusure that parallel path.

Here's one to cogitate: Change HEMI spark plugs warm or stone cold? Aluminum heads expand more than the steel spark plugs for a given temperature change (greater coefficient of linear expansion). Mechanics can't afford to let them sit overnight and the FSM doesn't address it. Is this one of those "common knowledge" things?

That's my story and I'm sticking to it...... Film at eleven..........
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  #22  
Old 10-03-2011, 07:09 PM
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Re: Champion Spark Plugs choices-CC,Iridium,Platinum, or Double Platinum?

Hi Walt. Thanks for the detailed response. As requested, I sent an Email to Federal Mogul asking for a detailed explanation of why Copper Core plugs are recommended as the only choice for the 5.7L Hemi as compared to the Double Platinum which are resistor plugs also. Will report any response. If the email response is only generic at best, I will call them directly and try to talk to engineering. Will report all findings. Thanks.
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:12 PM
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Re: Champion Spark Plugs choices-CC,Iridium,Platinum, or Double Platinum?

My jeep is going to the dealer soon for some electrical issues and a trans flush. I think I will have them change my plugs to due to the fact I'm in Afghanistan and can't do it my self.

2005 WK Hemi
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  #24  
Old 10-05-2011, 08:39 AM
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Re: Champion Spark Plugs choices-CC,Iridium,Platinum, or Double Platinum?

I'm looking at my 100k tune-up and it's going to involve spark plugs. Now, I've had the Hemi since Feb. and looked into this before. I've only ever heard to use the copper 570's, but when I went to order them from RockAuto it's now recommending a double-platinum or iridium for the waste spark. So has anyone done this or heard of it? It sort of makes sense to see that, but how would the coils hold up to different plugs? 8 copper 570's for main spark and 8 others for the secondary fire?
I'd love some input even though I'm probably going to stick with 16 570's.
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