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  #49  
Old 08-04-2013, 09:43 PM
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Re: Horrible, I mean really bad, mpg on my hemi

The platinums and iridiums just last longer. They won't give you any more power and, in some cases will give you less, as I said above. I would recommend sticking with a good quality copper core plug of your choice, especially since yours is an 05. Do you still have the "rats nest" (spark plug wires) going over the top of the engine, or have you gone to the Taylor Shortys?
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  #50  
Old 08-04-2013, 10:20 PM
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Re: Horrible, I mean really bad, mpg on my hemi

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Originally Posted by jeepgcoman View Post
The platinums and iridiums just last longer. They won't give you any more power and, in some cases will give you less, as I said above. I would recommend sticking with a good quality copper core plug of your choice, especially since yours is an 05. Do you still have the "rats nest" (spark plug wires) going over the top of the engine, or have you gone to the Taylor Shortys?
Rats nest, what are Taylor shortys?
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  #51  
Old 08-05-2013, 10:40 AM
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Re: Horrible, I mean really bad, mpg on my hemi

We're talking about the spark plug wires that go over the top of the engine. It was Chrysler's failed "wasted spark" setup. 05 was the only year they used it on the Hemi. In a wasted spark system, the spark plugs fire in pairs, one on its compression stroke and one on the opposite bank on its exhaust stroke. The "extra" spark on the exhaust stroke has no effect and is thus "wasted". I believe it was suppose to "insure" complete burning of all fuel and thus aid in emission control.

The Taylor Shorty wires do away with this system and replace the long wires with a short one that goes to the other plug for the cylinder that the coil is on. This makes it like the systems in the later model Hemi's. I've had them on my 05 Hemi LX for about 7 years now, and they are still working great. You can get them at a number of places, but here is some at a pretty good price. I think I paid a little over $70 for mine, but they were new on the market then.

Taylor Thundervolt 8.2mm Shorty Plug Wires 5.7L Hemi - Blue
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  #52  
Old 08-05-2013, 01:05 PM
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Re: Horrible, I mean really bad, mpg on my hemi

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Originally Posted by jeepgcoman View Post
We're talking about the spark plug wires that go over the top of the engine. It was Chrysler's failed "wasted spark" setup. 05 was the only year they used it on the Hemi. In a wasted spark system, the spark plugs fire in pairs, one on its compression stroke and one on the opposite bank on its exhaust stroke. The "extra" spark on the exhaust stroke has no effect and is thus "wasted". I believe it was suppose to "insure" complete burning of all fuel and thus aid in emission control.

The Taylor Shorty wires do away with this system and replace the long wires with a short one that goes to the other plug for the cylinder that the coil is on. This makes it like the systems in the later model Hemi's. I've had them on my 05 Hemi LX for about 7 years now, and they are still working great. You can get them at a number of places, but here is some at a pretty good price. I think I paid a little over $70 for mine, but they were new on the market then.

Taylor Thundervolt 8.2mm Shorty Plug Wires 5.7L Hemi - Blue
Don't the 06's and up have the same wasted spark system, though both spark plugs just integrated into one coil pack? I always thought the only difference between my setup is the second spark plug has its own separate wire, as compared to being integrated into 1 coil pack which still fires them separately but is cheaper than running 2 wires. I will look into the shortys.
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  #53  
Old 08-05-2013, 02:13 PM
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Re: Horrible, I mean really bad, mpg on my hemi

Nope, the 06's and up have the coil over both plugs, while the 05's have the coil over only one plug. The second wire from that coil crosses over the engine to the appropriate cylinder on the other bank. The Shorties eliminate this setup and makes it like the 06 and later Hemi's. You can also buy 06 > valve covers, coils and plugs and completely convert to the late model setup. I am about to do that with my 05. I'll head to the junk yard and see if I can get the valve covers and coil plugs (unfortunately the 05 and 06 coil plugs are different) and then switch everything over. I've already got an extra set of late model coils, so I am hoping to do the swap for under $100.

Here's a pix of the set I built first to see how they worked. After I was happy with the results, I bought the Taylor's, which were a better wire than I used.
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File Type: jpg P8180029_renamed_32669.jpg (36.2 KB, 19 views)
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  #54  
Old 08-05-2013, 03:02 PM
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Re: Horrible, I mean really bad, mpg on my hemi

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepgcoman View Post
Nope, the 06's and up have the coil over both plugs, while the 05's have the coil over only one plug. The second wire from that coil crosses over the engine to the appropriate cylinder on the other bank. The Shorties eliminate this setup and makes it like the 06 and later Hemi's. You can also buy 06 > valve covers, coils and plugs and completely convert to the late model setup. I am about to do that with my 05. I'll head to the junk yard and see if I can get the valve covers and coil plugs (unfortunately the 05 and 06 coil plugs are different) and then switch everything over. I've already got an extra set of late model coils, so I am hoping to do the swap for under $100.

Here's a pix of the set I built first to see how they worked. After I was happy with the results, I bought the Taylor's, which were a better wire than I used.
What I am thinking is the 06+ dual coil overs will still be using the wasted spark idea, first plug fires during combustion, second fires during exhaust, each coil timing each spark separately. The ones on 05's cross over because as one piston goes into combustion the one on the other side goes into exhaust, and they can time it so one coil pack will control both, and it was cheap to do it that way. With taylors you will be hard wiring both plugs to fire at the same time during combustion, which defeats the purpose of having 2 plugs right?
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  #55  
Old 08-05-2013, 04:15 PM
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Re: Horrible, I mean really bad, mpg on my hemi

Both plugs on a given cylinder will now fire at the same time using the Taylors. The way yours is now, only the plug that is covered by the coil fires on the compression stroke. The other plug for that cylinder will fire on the exhaust stroke, using spark from a coil on the other cylinder bank. The 06's and up (with coil covering both plugs) fire both plugs, for the cylinder they cover, at the same time. No "wasted" spark, but you do get the benefit of two plugs firing in one cylinder at the same time. This insures (hopefully) a complete burn of all fuel in the cylinder.

Here, in part, is what AA1Car.com says about the wasted spark system:

"Unlike conventional ignition systems, waste spark Distributorless Ignition Systems (DIS)) use half the spark to fire the opposite spark plug unconventionally from the side electrode to the center electrode. Copper core standard plugs and copper core single platinum spark plugs are not designed to withstand this reverse polarity firing and will suffer premature gap growth due to center electrode erosion. Gap growth will stress ignition system components by requiring more voltage to fire, eventually leading to misfire, loss of performance and fuel economy. This degradation can be noticeable as soon as 20,000 miles after the plug is installed. NOTE: Ignition misfire can cause the Check Engine light to come on."

Perhaps this is why they got rid of this system after only one year, at least in the WK's and LX's.
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  #56  
Old 08-08-2013, 01:59 AM
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Re: Horrible, I mean really bad, mpg on my hemi

I should be getting my obd2 scanner soon, 10 dollars brand new shipped, which will be able to read all the sensors. What kind of readings should I be looking for from the sensors?
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  #57  
Old 08-09-2013, 03:46 PM
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Re: Horrible, I mean really bad, mpg on my hemi

Is it a scanner or a code reader? I don't think you'll be able to "read all the sensors" with a $10 code reader. I could be wrong, but you'll probably only be able to read and clear Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC), and maybe one or two other features. Do you have the make, model and spec. sheet for the one you're getting, so we can check it out?
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Old 08-10-2013, 02:16 AM
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Re: Horrible, I mean really bad, mpg on my hemi

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Originally Posted by jeepgcoman View Post
Is it a scanner or a code reader? I don't think you'll be able to "read all the sensors" with a $10 code reader. I could be wrong, but you'll probably only be able to read and clear Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC), and maybe one or two other features. Do you have the make, model and spec. sheet for the one you're getting, so we can check it out?
Oh yeah, I got it today and its fantastic. It has 8 pages of sensor readings from cat converter temp to o2 sensor to map sensor to temp, knock, fuel ratios, and the list just goes on and on and on. It didn't find any codes at all. It can even run some tests on the system. It's the elm 327 USB to obd2 scanner. You just plug it in to your laptop and it comes with all the software. Has a lot of functions I haven't played around with and there seems to be a ton of free software on the Internet that will take advantage of this. It can be used to alter timings and stuff too like the dyno tuners do. It's a very powerful tool, and for the price unbeatable. Makes me wonder why people spend hundreds on something like a diablo. The possibilities are endless... Lol.
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Old 08-22-2013, 12:38 PM
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Re: Horrible, I mean really bad, mpg on my hemi

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepgcoman View Post
Is it a scanner or a code reader? I don't think you'll be able to "read all the sensors" with a $10 code reader. I could be wrong, but you'll probably only be able to read and clear Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC), and maybe one or two other features. Do you have the make, model and spec. sheet for the one you're getting, so we can check it out?
So what reading should I be getting from the map sensor and o2 sensors? Should I go with the champion copper plugs then?
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:43 PM
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Re: Horrible, I mean really bad, mpg on my hemi

The Manifold Air Pressure (MAP) sensor readings will probably be in "kilopascals" which is a metric measurement of air pressure. Walt, our resident Physics Professor, can probably enlighten us all a little more on how KP's relate/convert to PSI. I don't know the complete range the MAP Sensor is capable of reading, but today mine was at 38. Again, Walt can probably help us all here. All I look for is something that is way out of line to what I am used to seeing. I also don't normally monitor MAP readings, unless something else appears to be out of range. Then I look at everything. My DashHawk has 11 screens and I have them set up with 4 or 6 items per screen. So, you can see, this allows me the capability to monitor almost everything in the engine, and a few things in the transmission.

The front O2 Sensors reading should be vastly different from the rear O2 Sensor readings. I would highly recommend you read this Thread, to help you understand the how's and why's of the O2 Sensors. It'll also tell you about the types of readings to expect: Oxygen Sensors and Their Role in Engine Management--A Primer

As far as what spark plug to run, definitely stay with a good quality copper core plug. Champions are recommended by the manufacturer, but apparently there are two different types of the same part numbered plug.....the Mopar version and an "all the rest" version. There is a 1000+ post thread on "the other" forum, discussing whether or not these are causing stalling issues on some Hemi equipped WK's. Personally, I run NGK LZTR4A-11, Stock No. 5306 plugs in both my 05 Hemi LX and 06 Hemi WK. I have never had a hint of trouble with either. I've recently installed SOS high output coils and increased the spark plug gap to .060 in. The coil manufacturer recommends .065 in., but I figure the gap will increase with time, so I'll start at .060 in. I haven't been able to test it out yet with this configuration, as I currently have both bumpers off being repainted, and adapting the stock hitch to work with the SRT rear bumper.
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