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  #25  
Old 05-10-2014, 02:55 PM
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Re: "Mini" Lift Part 2 (Hybrid RC Installed)

So, what gives with going from RC and Bilsteins to Daystar and factory struts drop 1.75"? Could the Bilsteins really have been worth over an inch in that configuration? I dunno. Curious to hear some thoughts and opinions on the matter. Here is some pictures of the RC front spacers attached to the MOOG upper strut mounts I used. They measure nearly 2.75" or so as a unit. This seems a bit much to me. There is also what appears to be a small "plate" of some sort on there too. I have no idea what that is, and I may take these down further to see if it is part of the MOOG upper strut mount or something else. I know it is not Rustys spacer, as I had those removed way back when.
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  #26  
Old 05-10-2014, 03:03 PM
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Re: "Mini" Lift Part 2 (Hybrid RC Installed)

Ok, so you want to see the evidence of leaky Bilsteins....No problem. They are not as bad as the dealer kinda made it out to be, but they do have a thin film over them, and have collected dirt/debris in the areas where the oil has ran down the shock. As far as compression, they are still great. I took both hands and a "pound someones skull in" stance to get them to compress, but re-bound was terrible, very slooooooooooow to come back up to the top of the stroke. I am not impressed with Bilsteins prep/paint on the strut body. They are already having some rust after just two winters. I don't know what I am going to do with them. I may clean them up and have Bilstein rebuild them or sell for scrap. I haven't decided at this time. Any thoughts?
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  #27  
Old 05-13-2014, 01:37 PM
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Re: "Mini" Lift Part 2 (Hybrid RC Installed)

Mosier, great posts as always. I'm still hoping to update my WK to the RC kit with the longer F-150 MLL's in rear and probably adding the JBA or RR UCA's in the front. Sounds like that's basically the same configuration that you've settled on...so why did you change to Daystar up front when you already had the RC's?
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  #28  
Old 05-13-2014, 08:33 PM
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Re: "Mini" Lift Part 2 (Hybrid RC Installed)

Thanks Main reason is I wanted to get the front down some to try to eliminate the bump steer issue and also preserve the CV's. Those factory CV's are tuff though....I also originally just wanted a darn 2 inch or so lift, not 5 inches. Over time the ride had become very stiff, and also the original "clinking/clanging" sound was getting progressively worse. As you know, due to where I live and the parking, the Superlift is out, and I also didn't want that lift right now anyways. So, ....Where to begin? Well, my dealer is pretty good, so I trust them when they told me about the Bilsteins. I know that Bilstein states about 10% fill of the oil in the shock body is used for the self lubricating seal on the rod end, so they say the leakage is normal. What really concerned me is that the leakage was coinciding with the ever worsening ride. What I mean by that is control in the "compression" stroke was still good, but consistent response during a washboard type surface (Basically every darn Michigan road right now. Even the F'n Interstate) was not good at all compared to when I bought them. I put them on at roughly 42K. I know have close to (as of today) 57K miles. So in 15K miles, something went wrong. From the knowledge I have learned on here, all events I have just described seem to point to the front Bilstein struts being out of their ideal "static" travel range. Or simply put, they were nearly fully extended all the time. Thus, they wore out very quickly and also the added strain in the strut body with the very high pressure gas design probably exacerbated the leakage. I'm not 100% on that, as I'm not a suspension Engineer, so it's just a theory. I do know there was an immediate and very satisfying difference putting brand new struts on. Factory ones at that no less.

So we got that issue, coupled with all the damn clanging. I decided that since I wanted to try new struts, go a little softer for the daily grind, and hopefully offset the loss of some control with the SRT 8 sway bars (I just ordered the front one today, I had the rear put on first to see what difference it made by itself. More on that later) why not go back to factory? As stated in the "Mini" Lift thread a ways back, they are good struts, but they do not last long. Probably about a 30K strut/shock in my configuration, how I drive and the types of roads I drive on if I wanted optimal performance form them. You might get 60K out of them if the degradation in control does not bother you. It does me, so most likely at every 30K, give or take a few thousand, I'll buy a new set. Since I also was going to do new mounts and so on, I looked at the Daystar. The Daystar lift replaces all that internally on the strut itself. It also has no metal to metal contact at all. I have a pic I found a long time ago of this exact lift in what appears to be CAD. You can see how isolated everything is. This would be great for NVH issues. I also have learned from here (Jeepgarage is so bad-ass when it comes to a knowledge base on Jeeps. There is probably everything you want to know about most all Jeep models on here. You just gotta search and read...alot) that typically the Daystar sits a little lower than the RC lift. So, sounded to me like a perfect idea to experiment with.

Next thing you know, once it was all back together, night and day difference. I got my "luxury" ride and quietness back! Now there was not as much roll control as with the Bilsteins, but it was a good trade off as no more clunking/clanging and harsh ride. The rear I have been happy with, as I like to have additional capacity to carry things and tow. The rake is not as bad as the pics would have you believe, especially with a full tank of fuel. I like it and it now sits about where I really wanted it in the first place. The alignment is fantastic. No more bump steer. Just all around happy with it.

Now what caused the noise? I dunno definitively. My main theory goes that the strut top nut to the strut rod was not tightened all the way, or "bottomed out" like it should be, which has proved in some cases to cause some clunking noise. Most shops just won't take the necessary time with a wall mount heavy duty spring compressor and compress the spring enough to get the strut top nut tightened down as far as it should be. This, coupled with the harsh transmission of mechanical vibrations from the lack of proper dampening in the struts going all the way through to the RC metal spacers bolted to the top metal strut plate to the metal of the strut mount on the WK body itself=possiblely unacceptable NVH issues. Again, I'm not an Engineer, so it's just a theory.

I don't know if the fact that the JBA arms allowed the whole setup to fully extended more than normal due to the fact the offset (plane wise) upper ball joint was not "loaded" with this type of lift, thus giving me way more lift than normal, and/or contributing to the Bilsteins being out of normal "static" range or what? Point is, with a factory arm, I might not have been at 5 inches on the lift, but the upper ball joint would definitely be "loaded" and possibly have broken being under stress all the time. And, I can't get my head around how a strut spacer that is mounted on top of a strut assembly would really dictate anything to do with the struts travel length cause really, it shouldn't I would think. I would love for a Chrysler Suspension Engineer (Heck, any Suspension Engineer for that matter) who may be apart of this forum to maybe shed some light on the subject, and possibly offer some explanations or theory's. More knowledge is good

Loooooooooong story short, right now the current combination is outstanding for what I use it for. Once I take apart the RC spacers on the MOOG strut plates to see what that possible additional plate is, I'll post up. See the Daystar pic of just how that particular lift works.
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  #29  
Old 05-14-2014, 08:00 AM
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Re: "Mini" Lift Part 2 (Hybrid RC Installed)

just from my experience i just went from a daystar BB to stock with a JBA strut spacer.. my measurements in the front are as followed just for a quick reference to your numbers"

old setup: daystar BB with stock springs and bilstein hds 20.25" hub to fender, 35" from ground to fender

current setup: jba strut spacer, XK hemi coils, bilstein hds all new hardware- 19.5" hub to fender, 34" ground to fender

just some quick numbers for you. i ran the daystar for almost 3 years with various comfigurations in the rear but ALWAYS the bilsteins with the spacer. good luck and great wite ups and feedback
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Old 05-14-2014, 08:58 AM
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Re: "Mini" Lift Part 2 (Hybrid RC Installed)

Thank you. I'm curious about the XK Springs. How did they compare to your factory WK springs? Look any different as far as number of coil winding's, space between the winding's etc.? I'm also surprised that running the XK springs with 4600 series Bilsteins and a strut spacer gave you less lift than the Daystar and factory springs. I would have thought you would have been given a little more, based off how much I got from my earlier setup with Bilsteins and the strut spacer with JBA arms. Which now more than ever makes me wonder "WTF??" in how I got 5 inches of lift from my old setup. How is the ride you have now compared to the Daystar? You notice any changes over the three years with the Daystar setup? Thanks for the information
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Old 05-14-2014, 09:35 AM
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Re: "Mini" Lift Part 2 (Hybrid RC Installed)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mosier View Post
Thank you. I'm curious about the XK Springs. How did they compare to your factory WK springs? Look any different as far as number of coil winding's, space between the winding's etc.? I'm also surprised that running the XK springs with 4600 series Bilsteins and a strut spacer gave you less lift than the Daystar and factory springs. I would have thought you would have been given a little more, based off how much I got from my earlier setup with Bilsteins and the strut spacer with JBA arms. Which now more than ever makes me wonder "WTF??" in how I got 5 inches of lift from my old setup. How is the ride you have now compared to the Daystar? You notice any changes over the three years with the Daystar setup? Thanks for the information
i actually just had to check the first page of this thread to see where you were number-wise after you did the bilsteins and strut spacer- and its pretty much the same height, 34" to the fender. i have yet to get an alignment since i dropped down almost an 1" so im wondering if that number might change. the XK coils arent much different, slightly thicker coils, i didnt get a chance to measure them though. they came off an XK hemi and prob had 75k on them so they have some miles on them. with the current set up i still have my 32s on there and have plenty of room in there for them- however ill prob drop to a 31.5". theres a guy that runs the rustys spacer, XK hemi coils and bilsteins as well on his CRD and ended up with almost the same measurements i have. so i think my results are pretty standard, i was hoping id get closer to 20" hub to fender, but 19.5" is exactly 1" higher than stock.

the ride compared to the daystar is slightly stiffer and more controlled IMO. i contribute this to the increased spring rate of the XK springs. i do like the ride now and i cant wait to get the rear dialed in now- dont ask lol.

i never changed the front up much when i had the daystar. i have the SRT front swaybar and i had extended length bwoody links, but they were too long and i eventually went to stock links and they really helped the body roll. it was a more controlled ride. i cant complain about the daystar, i mean the poly spacers held up for 3 years and 65k. md roads are horrible these days, especially after a crazy winter.
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  #32  
Old 06-29-2014, 10:23 PM
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Re: "Mini" Lift Part 2 (Hybrid RC Installed)

Sorry for the delayed response, work has got me all tied up, so I spaced it. Great information, thank you. I also want to add that I started out with just the B-Woody stock length sway bar end links up front, and B-Woody two inch extended rear end links with an SRT rear sway bar. It tightened up the handling nicely, but I noticed in fast sweeper type turns I was getting more under-steer than before. Odd, as every vehicle I have owned before this, a rear sway bar in place of none, or a bigger one in place of a small rear factory sway bar made the vehicle handle more neutral, dialing back the under-steer. Curiously, this was not the case in the WK. I have since added the front SRT sway bar and now handling has improved dramatically all around, and went to being fairly neutral at the same time. So, advice to those wondering which direction to go on the SRT sway bars-do the front first. Then as time and money allows, do the rear.
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Old 08-12-2014, 06:55 AM
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Re: "Mini" Lift Part 2 (Hybrid RC Installed)

i ran the rear addco at first and then added the srt front later on. i also hasd the bwoody links on at one point in time- i got the extended links front and rear 2" longer than stock. that was a big mistake on my part as they were too long, both front and rear. talking with bwoody the links they make for stock height are almost an inch longer than the factory ones. so they almost did little to nothing for my handling. i ended up selling them, but plan on getting a stock length set sooner or later when funds free up.
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