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"Mini" Lift Part 2 (Hybrid RC Installed)

17K views 35 replies 9 participants last post by  WooKiee06 
#1 ·
I am sorry this is so long winded, but I wanted to share as much information about this that I have upfront with folks so they don’t have to “discover” something by having to ask the right questions. Since I have had the Mini Lift on for a while, when I got back from my second tour, I wanted to add a little to it. I was still not quite ready to “commit” to the Superlift yet, maybe in the future, but here is what I came up with. For those who have not read my “Mini” Lift thread, I will post the numbers:
Stock springs:
Drivers’ front spring: 52089766AE
Passengers front spring: 52089764AE
Drivers rear spring: 52089821AD
Passengers rear spring: 52089820AD


Stock Measurements (In inches, as given from the ground to the fender, center of wheel, full tank of fuel):
Drivers Front: 32.5”
Passenger Front: 32.5”
Drivers Rear: 33.25”
Passengers Rear: 34”
Bottom of Front Fascia to ground: 11”

Part of the differences in height I found stems from the fact that the factory apparently has different spring rates for each spring depending what it’s position is on the WK. Example: The Drivers Side has higher rates than the Passengers Side to compensate for the battery and fuel tank. Now my WK has always sat just a smidge (roughly ¼”) higher than any I have been next to stock. Don’t know why. That’s the reason I listed the spring numbers I have. I have the 4.7 Corsair Gen. 2, which rumor has weighs 50-60lbs less than the Hemi. But I also know mine did not come from the factory with the Tow Package, so I may never really know. You will see the effects of this shortly.

Here is the parts list (quantity of how many needed in parenthesis) of the Mini Lift and the resulting measurements (In inches, as given from the ground to the fender, center of wheel, full tank of fuel, gains in parenthesis from stock):


MOOG Front Strut Mount Kit (Includes Upper Coil Isolator) (x2): K160050
MOOG Front Strut Lower Coil Spring Isolator (x2): K160058
MOOG Rear Coil Spring Isolators (Fits both upper and lower) (x4): K160059
Rusty’s WK Front Strut Spacer (x2): RC-STP1-XK-WK
Bilstein Front Heavy Duty Struts (x2): 24-186797
Monroe Rear Load Leveling Shocks (x2): 58646

Drivers Front: 34” (+1.5”)
Passengers Front: 34” (+1.5”)
Drivers Rear: 34.5” (+1.25”)
Passengers Rear: 35” (+1”)
Bottom of Front Fascia to Ground (+2”)

To this I have added the following parts and their measurements are posted the same as above. One caveat is that I intended to remove the Rusty’s spacer, but the shop forgot about it and the RC Lift got put on top. Saved them from having to grind the strut mount bolts, so no wonder it went in so easilyJ And yes, the Clevis bolt still said “NO!” many times it trying to remove it, but I had spent a good couple weeks squirting PB Blaster on those and other bolts in the hope it would be easier than last time. Not a lot, just a few squirts everyday at lunch time on those areas. It came out without destroying the lower control arm and bushing, much to everybody’s surprise. But it did require using a lot of cuss words and patience, followed by more cuss words.

Rough Country 2 Inch Spacer Lift (x1): SKU-664
Rusty’s WK Rear Adjustable Track Bar (x1): RC-TB732-UV
Jeepin’By Al Upper Control Arms (x2): None given-order direct by nomenclature on 4XGurad website.
Monroe Rear Load Leveling Shocks (x2): 58643
Home Depot Zinc Washers in ½” and ¼ “ sizes to make up the difference in narrower upper shock eyelet on the Monroe 58643’s vs. the factory size on the 58646.
Discount Tire Hub Centric rings for my new wheels. Factory hub bore is 71.5mm and the Dick Cepek’s are 83.820mm. They sold me ones that were 71.5mm to 83mm, and they worked just fine.
Superchips Flashpaq for tire size/shift schedule calibration (x1): 3870
Dick Cepek Torque Wheels (x4): 5x127mm bolt pattern 18x8.5” with +20mm offset
Hercules Terra Trac A/T 2 Tires (x4): P265/65/18
New 433Mhz TPMS Sensors (x4): Shop Supplied

Drivers Front: 37.5” (+5”)
Passengers Front: 37.5” (+5”)
Drivers Rear: 37.5” (+4.25”)
Passengers Rear: 38” (+4”)
Bottom of Front Fascia to Ground: 17.5” (+6.5”)

Drivers Front Hub to Fender: 23”
Passenger Front Hub to Fender: 23”
Drivers Rear Hub to Fender: 22.50”
Passenger Rear Hub to Fender: 22.75”

I do not have any other hub to fender measurements from the stock and the Mini Lift to compare. As you can see from the Hybrid Lift numbers, that’s a fairly large increase over stock. I mainly wanted some additional height for larger tires and wheels for a certain look, not what would work best off road. I don’t have much down travel left anymore and you will see that in the photos. I don’t go off road much, and when I do, I take care and don’t get over my head or on my throttle, so I am not too worried about it. I only have 60 miles on this current set-up, and will be reporting back in as the miles accumulate to see what is affected by this much lift without dropping the front diff and using longer front knuckles and the rear not getting lower control arm relocation brackets like the Superlift does. I can say my fuel mileage just running around town has dropped 1.3mpg as I now am getting 14.7-15.0 vs. the 16-16.3mpg I was before. Also, in addition to using the Superchips to correct the speedometer and shift points, I also ran the 91 performance tune with extending out the WOT shift points by 200rpms and the engine redline by the same amount. The difference has been quite surprisingJ As a matter of fact, the throttle tip in is the best it has ever been, and the Jeep drives better power wise than stock, which is fantastic considering the extra weight and lift and so on. I am VERY happy so far with the SuperchipsJ

On with the pics!!!

 

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#2 ·
Here is the measuring.
 

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#3 ·
Full droop shots. Surprsingly the aligment came out just fine. I still had enough thread in the tie rod ends. The brake lines were good, and the ABS lines just needed "freed" from one of their hold downs. You can see though the upper control arms are a hair away from the front knuckles at full droop. Also I should mention that there is some slight "bump steer" post lift. Most likey due to a combination of the ertxa tire/wheel weight and the angle at which the tie rod ends are opreating now. It is not bad at all, but you can tell it's there.
 

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#4 ·
I forgot to mention, I put on B-Woody End Links on the factory sway bars. Stock Length up front and 2 inch longer out back. Here is some shots plus the RC Lift. You can see how the front RC Spacer is sitting on top of the Rustys spacer.
 

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#6 ·
I had a local body shop take care of the front pinch welds and the inner fender liner plastic. They also are the ones who installed the factory tow package, Overland trim, Badges, and the tow hooks.
 

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#8 ·
Wheels. This took me a long time because for the most part, everything on the Jeep bolt pattern of 5x5 (5x127mm) is geared for the JK market and therefore has way deeper offsets than I would run on the WK. AEV set the standard with 17x8.5" on +25mm offset in their Pintlers. I don't know if these are made anymore or not. I could not find any:confused: Also I have found AEV and Rugged Ridge are the only two that make wheels that will fit our hubs (71.5mm) without Hub Centric Rings. Problem is the AEV wheels run a +10mm offset and the Rugged Ridge runs a 4 9/16" offset. I really was tempted to buy the Rugged Ridge wheels as they look fantastic, even though they are pricey. But I just did not want my tires sticking out way past the fenders throwing slop and whatnot all over my WK. I really wish Bushwacker would get off their duff and make us some fender flares. Hell, they got every other Jeep covered, even the newer (!!) WK2's. Then you would not have to worry so much about the darn offset because you would have the fender coverage and thus your choices would be alot better. As it is, I like my Dick Cepek Torque wheels and they fit pretty good.
 

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#9 ·
I forgot to mention, for those that want to know, the factory Goodyear Fortera HL 245/60/18 that came stock on my WK weighed roughly 36lbs. The Hercules Terra Trac A/T 2 265/65/18 that I bought weighed roughly 40lbs. The Terra Tracs are also T speed rated, as opposed to the factory S rated tires. The factory tire was rated at 2300lbs give or take a few on load rating, and the Terra Tracs are 2600lbs. The Dick Cepek Torque wheel did not feel significantly heavier than the factory 18" Chrome Cast Summit. The shipping weight on it was 27lbs per wheel. I do not have exact wheel weights though of the Chrome Cast. The Torques weight rating is 2500lbs per wheel, so it's not exactly heavy duty, but strong enough for what I want to use it for. I know the tire weights from buying both sets brand new from their shipping placards.
 
#10 ·
Mileage: 51,552. 100 Miles post lift. Here is what the upper control arm plane and both sides of the cv axles at static look like. Also is a few shots of the how the inner cv boot is touching in a few places, causeing the inside to look "shiny". I do not know if the inner portions of the cv boots have always been a little shiny or not, as I have never had to spend any time underneath my WK, I've never had any problems or reason to. With this much lift not really done properly, I now find it necessary to keep tabs. I did not strive for this much lift, it's just the way it turned out. Looks really good, but I wonder at what cost:rolleyes: Anyways, those of you who have the OME HD lift or Hybrid I would like to see your cv axle angles and boots to compare. Maybe I am worrying over nothing?
 

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#13 ·
Mileage: 52754 1302 miles post lift. I took a weekend to visit family. It's 390.2 miles each way. I ha the JGC sometimes north of 90mph for 7-10 minutes at a time, no issues. Cruise was set most of the time at nearly 80mph. No noise, no "Christmas Tree' going off in the dash, just nothing. Drove like stock. Super chips has really helped fuel mileage in town, back up to 15.8-16.3 mpg in town now. Attached is highway mileage that was reset from the last fuel stop which was right off the interstate. So the whole time since filling up has been in a constant state, no stopping. The front still has not settled, therefore it is time to remove the Rustys Spacers like I wanted to have the first go'round. Upon return inspection after the trip, found no problems with anything. No CV, Tie-Rod, or Rack issues.
 

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#14 ·
I had the Rustys Spacers removed, nothing else. The front came down approx. 3/8". The front hub to fender measurements were approx. 22 5/8" of an inch now. Still would have liked to lower it just a hair more, but that's what I got. I also replaced the outer Tie-Rod ins with MOOG problem solvers. Nothing was wrong with the factory pieces, but since the alignment and everything had to be re-done again, I figured at over 50K on the original stuff, might as well. You can see how the Jeepn by Al upper control arms now have a factory like plane at the ball joint to knuckle attachment point. I'd say these arms are the primary reason I have gotten so much lift from adding the RC Lift, as they let everything be "free' after all the stuff added, nothing is in a bind. But I also want to stress that I got 1.5" of lift just from Bilsteins and MOOG coil isolators too. So that probably made a difference also. The rear has settled approx. 1/4" on each side. Photos show new alignment and new CV angles, as well as the upper control arm angle.
 

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#17 ·
Great info and pics! Just looked at the specs for those Torque wheels, I assume yours are the 20mm offset ones (18")? I'm also searching for wheels to use for bigger tires & lift, but want to stick with 17", and I share your concern about not wanting wheels sticking out any further than necessary to clear the bolt. Don't want spacers either. I wish AEV still made the 25mm offset ones. Anyway just wondering if you or anyone else came across anything else in that offset range but in 17" (the 17" Torques are 6mm offset, and Mamba MR1X is 8mm).
 
#18 ·
Some of the new wheels on Tire Rack that are listed for the WK are 17x8 +35. Some, not all. That would bring them out roughly 1/2" from factory, but since they are 1/2" wider, it may be a wash. These are the closest offset I have seen so far offered in 17" that come close to the AEV +25mm Pintlers that we can't f'n get (!!!!!!!!) anymore. (And no, I don't wanna here about this buying used off Craigs List, E-bay, BookFace, Spacebook or whatever nonsense....) Like I said earlier, everything is JK or 1/2 ton Chevy/Ford truck offsets when it comes to aftermarket. Not to mention the hub center holes too. Side note, I have 56K and change, and the rack was making noises. Dealership didn't like the noise (a "clunking" type sound when turning back and forth, like it had "free play" a tad on the teeth on the rack itself), so they replaced it. I don't wanna say it was fully "blown", but I can definitely tell a difference now there is a new one in there. I will update later once I have more information and address some things with the suspension. Really though, to simplify my statements, I have to much lift for the drive train in the current configuration and it is starting to have some negative affects. Will update once I have done some more investigating. I have been working a lot lately, so digging around underneath the WK has been a low priority.
 
#21 ·
Mileage: 56,952. Approx. 5,500 miles and one of the nastiest winters in Michigan's history have been put on the Hybrid Lift. I took the WK in to the dealer to try to diagnose a clunking/thumping noise from the front when driving over rough terrain. I could not visually see any issues with sway bar mounts/links and/or bushings. Nether could I see any issues with the lower control arm bushings and the front differential mount bushing. CV's still looked good and the alignment was still good. This is where the fun began....After pouring over everything, they felt the steering rack was the culprit. There was some slight play in it when turning from side to side and they felt the rack pinion gear and slide teeth were worn, causing some slack and therefore the audible noise. The dealer replaced the rack under warranty. Well, since this is the nicest vehicle I have owned up to this point, even a "bad" rack had steering that was miles ahead of everything else I have driven, so suffice to say I was surprised at just how much better a brand new steering rack was compared to my original:) With the steering all fixed, the noise was cut in half, but not gone. What to do...

I continued to drive for another month or so trying to figure out what might be going on. While it was in for the rack replacement, the dealer also told me the Bilsteins that were on it were leaking oil, but the front was still exceptionally stiff and they felt that since the Jeep passed the "jounce" test, there was no need for replacement. Despite all my driving and such through the winter, the front never settled any more, and the ride had started to become harsher than I remember from when the Bilsteins were new. At this point I decided to either switch up to an OME lift, or go with something else as do to some parking height issues where I live, the Superlift was still out. I'm also just not ready for the mods the Superlift requires. Long story short, I went with a Daystar kit and brand new factory struts up front. I even called Daystar and they stated that they designed this lift using the factory suspension. I also added the full factory skid plates, and a rear SRT 8 sway bar. The front clunking noise is gone, the ride is worlds better as far as comfort goes, but some additional sway and slightly less control is gone. Thats ok, as I'll take the better ride over pure handling.

So, the front has a Daystar lift, factory struts, and JBA Upper Control arms, factory sway bar, B-Woody stock length sway front sway bar end links.

The rear has the Rough Country metal spacer, F-150 Mll's, SRT 8 sway bar and bushings, B-Woody rear 2 inch longer sway bar end links.

Numbers from all the lifts I have done:

Stock:
Drivers ground to fender-32.5"
Passengers ground to fender-32.5"

Mini Lift:
Drivers ground to fender-34" (+1.5")
Passengers ground to fender-34" (+1.5")

Hybrid Lift:
Drivers ground to fender-37.5" (+5")
Passengers ground to fender-37.5" (+5")
Drivers hub to fender-23"
Passengers hub to fender-23"

Daystar Lift:
Drivers ground to fender-35.75" (+3.25" from stock, -1.75" from hybrid)
Passengers ground to fender-36" (+3.5" from stock, -1.5" from hybrid)
Drivers hub to fender-21"
Passengers hub to fender-21.25"

The rear is still drivers hub to fender 22.25" and the Passengers hub to fender 22.70" or so, just slightly less than 22.75". Really depends on just how much fuel I have (fuel tank is on the drivers side). When it is 1/4 tank or less, the rear sits nearly at 22.5" all the way around.

I am happy to maintain the factory like "rake" as when I want to put a trailer on it, the front will not shoot up towards the sky. See pics-the one on the left is the Hybrid, the one on the right is the Daystar.
 

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#22 ·
Comparison of CV angles. From left to right: Drivers side Hybrid, Drivers side Daystar, Passengers side Hybrid, Passengers side Daystar.
 

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#24 ·
JBA Control Arm plane. On the left is the drivers side Hybrid, then the drivers side Daystar. It almost seems that I now could go back to the factory style arm, maybe save some weight in the process too. Alignment still came out great through, and it drives just fine. If anything, maybe this will actually help in full suspension droop as the upper ball joint will not ever be stressed in an off-roading situation, do to the struts maxing out in travel before the this particular ball joint would ever be in a bind. I know you don't ever want to use suspension parts as your "limiting stops", but it's what I am working with right now. On a side note, JBA's powder-coating is holding up great on their arm, but the hardware for the ball joint is crap. After just one winter it looks like those screws and nuts have been on there for years, not 6 months. I am definitely going to be sanding and painting those here one weekend when I have time. Thoughts?
 

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#25 ·
So, what gives with going from RC and Bilsteins to Daystar and factory struts drop 1.75"? Could the Bilsteins really have been worth over an inch in that configuration? I dunno. Curious to hear some thoughts and opinions on the matter. Here is some pictures of the RC front spacers attached to the MOOG upper strut mounts I used. They measure nearly 2.75" or so as a unit. This seems a bit much to me. There is also what appears to be a small "plate" of some sort on there too. I have no idea what that is, and I may take these down further to see if it is part of the MOOG upper strut mount or something else. I know it is not Rustys spacer, as I had those removed way back when.
 

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#26 ·
Ok, so you want to see the evidence of leaky Bilsteins....No problem. They are not as bad as the dealer kinda made it out to be, but they do have a thin film over them, and have collected dirt/debris in the areas where the oil has ran down the shock. As far as compression, they are still great. I took both hands and a "pound someones skull in" stance to get them to compress, but re-bound was terrible, very slooooooooooow to come back up to the top of the stroke. I am not impressed with Bilsteins prep/paint on the strut body. They are already having some rust after just two winters. I don't know what I am going to do with them. I may clean them up and have Bilstein rebuild them or sell for scrap. I haven't decided at this time. Any thoughts?
 

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