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  #13009  
Old 02-14-2015, 04:41 AM
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Re: 2014 Grand Cherokee information - Australia

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Originally Posted by mmcrh View Post

In my case, before TCM flash, i pressed gas pedal and the car responded with increase in speed promptly regardless of terrain. After TCM flash, when i pressed gas pedal, gear did drop, rpm did go up, and 1) on flat Rd or light/moderate uphill, e.g, on motorway either merging or overtaking, it struggled to increase speed promptly compared to pre-TCM flash; 2) on big uphill, e,g, mt ousley, i could only push speed up to somewhere between 50-60kph, fall short of wanted speed of 80kph. It begs the question why increase in rpm and drop in gear does not translate into increase in speed? Where is the missing link?
I think i mentioned this theory just after your 2nd or 3rd post on this topic, we're up to about 30 each by now


The "missing link" is the Torque converter. (There are also 3 friction clutches inside the gear box but we'll leave them for the moment)

It's a fluid coupling between the engine and the gearbox.

I wont got into the technical but .... It allows the engine to keep turning when you are stopped at the traffic lights.
You should be able to "feel" it working when you drive drive slowly in a driveway or take off from traffic lights.
Press the pedal and the engine revs go up and then the car gradually starts moving.
If you've driven a real manual transmission car it does the same thing as having the clutch halfway in allowing some "slippage" between the engine ad gearbox.


The torque converter is working all the time.
It slips a little when doing gear changes so they are smooth from one gear to another. (the 3 friction clutches also play a part)

When you are coasting on the flat, foot of the pedal, the engine revs drop but the car keeps going the same speed. That's the torque converter allowing this.

When driving at at steady load the engine is pushing the torque converter is basically "locked" (usually with a friction clutch) through the driveline so there is no slip and no energy is wasted. When driving on the highway , freeway , up mount Ousley with momentum it should be locked to get the power to the wheels, and not be slipping.


Now....

When going up a steep hill, you are saying that the gears change down to lower gear as they are supposed to and the revs come up as the engine revs faster for the lower gear.

You should be able to accelerate easier in the lower gear.
If you put your foot down in that gear the speed should increase and the revs should gradually increase too.

If your engine revs increase in that gear but the speed DOESN'T increase then this is the Torque converter/friction clutch slipping (the missing link).
If you have damaged one of the 3 friction clutches inside the gearbox maybe this might also have the similar symptoms.


If this really is the problem, It would be worse on hills because there is more loading on the engine/transmission on hills compared to the flat.

If you tried to tow a heavy trailer or did a fast acceleration 0-100 this also puts a higher load, so you might see the same thing happening


Quote:
Originally Posted by mmcrh View Post

After PCM update, i feel immediate improvement regarding increase in speed: on point 1) even though the speed increase is not as prompt as pre-TCM flash, I'm happy; 2) on point 2) above, i can only push speed up to 75kph, not happy jane. IF why the PCM update makes the car tick can be answered, then a solution to my problem would be on the horizon....
I don't know what controls the Torque converter, electronics? , computer? TCM? magic? but if it is slipping or the clutches are slipping then it's not doing its job properly.

To see where all the bits are, there's a nice cutaway picture in the this link which shows all the guts of it.
http://www.zf.com/media/media/img_1/...Produkt_EN.pdf
It's quite complicated as you can see but for an 8 speed design is actually quite simple and clever with only 4 gearsets and handles a lot of torque for its size.


Pretty much everything else you've described (once we get past all of the contradictions and confusion) is normal for the car.

One thing on driving as Benno / Barboots / BigSkiddy said is don't lift right off the gas when going up hill. This unloads the drivetrain completely and the car thinks you are not going up a hill.

You cant drive up a long steep hill in 8th with the engine revs down low. Not possible in any car not even a Jeep.

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  #13010  
Old 02-14-2015, 08:10 AM
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Re: 2014 Grand Cherokee information - Australia

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Originally Posted by Steve1307 View Post
I think i mentioned this theory just after your 2nd or 3rd post on this topic, we're up to about 30 each by now


The "missing link" is the Torque converter. (There are also 3 friction clutches inside the gear box but we'll leave them for the moment).

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. You r quite knowledgable in motor mechanics.

For avoidance of possible doubt and confusion from the service guy, I'll certainly emphasize to him first thing next week that speed can only reach certain level on big uphills despite gear down/rpm up. Also, will put forward to him torque converter/clutch slippage as a possible culprit.

More questions if you don't mind. If slippage is the culprit, would it be detectable on the full car scan report submitted to JA? If not, i presume the service guy can run kind of test to rule it in or out, right?
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  #13011  
Old 02-14-2015, 08:45 AM
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Re: 2014 Grand Cherokee information - Australia

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Originally Posted by mmcrh View Post

More questions if you don't mind. If slippage is the culprit, would it be detectable on the full car scan report submitted to JA? If not, i presume the service guy can run kind of test to rule it in or out, right?
If it's a mechanical problem in the Torque Converter / friction Clutch I'm not sure they could "scan it", they'll have to put the driveline under load by driving it or sticking on a dyno (4 wheel drive dyno).

Plugging it in when the vehicle is just sitting in the workshop will only give the error flags (DTC codes) that have come up. There's literally thousands of "Pxxxx" fault codes for engine/powertrain.
DTCsearch.com - Search Engine for OBD-II Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs)
Please don't go searching thru this, it's worse that trying to diagnose an illness using the internet http://symptoms.webmd.com

You haven't mentioned any warning lights on the EVIC so there might not be any which warrant an MIL.


The transmission has it's own computer so who knows what sort of sensors are in there. They may very well be able to measure input and output speeds or input/output torque electronically but they'll need to drive it or dyno it to monitor.
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  #13012  
Old 02-14-2015, 07:37 PM
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Re: 2014 Grand Cherokee information - Australia

Oh man....

Is it just me or are we being "taken for a ride".


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  #13013  
Old 02-14-2015, 09:34 PM
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Re: 2014 Grand Cherokee information - Australia

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Originally Posted by GMWK2 View Post
Oh man....

Is it just me or are we being "taken for a ride".


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Well not for me to judge but there seems to be a bit of a discrepancy in the quality or rather consistency of the descriptions in terms of the English language used.

Some posts on other topics are perfectly understandable. Yet this topic with 40 odd replies many are hard to understand with the particular brand of "pidgin English" they seem to be in.

If English isn't a natural first language then thats ok. I don't have any problem with that. It makes it a little more tricky to understand but I'm used to talking to, writing to and meeting people I many countries for my work.

I'm just tryin' to help out.
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  #13014  
Old 02-14-2015, 10:19 PM
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Re: 2014 Grand Cherokee information - Australia

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Originally Posted by Steve1307 View Post
hard to understand with the particular brand of "pidgin English" they seem to be in.

.....
and meeting people I many countries for my work.
Sorry, but that couldn't be left alone.
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  #13015  
Old 02-15-2015, 03:15 AM
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Re: 2014 Grand Cherokee information - Australia

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Originally Posted by Steve1307 View Post
Well not for me to judge but there seems to be a bit of a discrepancy in the quality or rather consistency of the descriptions in terms of the English language used.



Some posts on other topics are perfectly understandable. Yet this topic with 40 odd replies many are hard to understand with the particular brand of "pidgin English" they seem to be in.



If English isn't a natural first language then thats ok. I don't have any problem with that. It makes it a little more tricky to understand but I'm used to talking to, writing to and meeting people I many countries for my work.



I'm just tryin' to help out.

No problem - one of the great things about this forum is the willingness of people like you to share their knowledge.

But sometimes you have to wonder....


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  #13016  
Old 02-15-2015, 03:27 AM
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Re: 2014 Grand Cherokee information - Australia

Peopo dat talk da Tok Pisin`i kine local Pidgin can use dis Web place fo find out mo plenny bout da JEEP. Get odda peopo too dat talk English kine, but dey can kinda read da Pidgin if dey like.
Can use wateva Web browsa program yoa computa get. Da mos easy one is da latest kine Mozilla Firefox fo PC, Safari fo da Mac.
Us guys put all dis hea, fo make um easy fo read da JEEP in da Pidgin language. Fo find all kine stuff, dis mo easy fo you, den jus da print kine book. Get diffren kine ways fo find tings inside da JEEP wit dis Prophero compyuta program dat oua friend John Thomson make. Da yellow lis you see da lef side dis page, give you three diffren ways fo find wat you looking fo. :-)
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  #13017  
Old 02-15-2015, 04:00 AM
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Re: 2014 Grand Cherokee information - Australia

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Originally Posted by SNUKE View Post
Sorry, but that couldn't be left alone.
Sori mi bagarap. Bik pinga, lik lik baten bilong telipon.

(sorry my mistake. I have big fingers and small buttons on my phone.)
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  #13018  
Old 02-15-2015, 07:38 PM
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Re: 2014 Grand Cherokee information - Australia

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Originally Posted by mmcrh View Post
Any idea on possible culprits as to why it only occurs on big hill?
Gravity?
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  #13019  
Old 02-16-2015, 03:30 AM
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Re: 2014 Grand Cherokee information - Australia

I asked with my physicist, checks out.

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  #13020  
Old 02-17-2015, 01:16 AM
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Re: 2014 Grand Cherokee information - Australia

Hey Guys, Who was it that passed me this morning on the Kenwick Link driving a white overland, "jeep 1941" with members sticker on rear window?
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