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2014 JGC Diesel rattle (Australia)

10K views 48 replies 20 participants last post by  Steve1307 
#1 ·
Hi all,

Got my new 2014 Overland in diesel. The first visit to the gas station was to BP. This resulted in an awful engine rattle at low revs and ultimately a trip back to the shop to get the tank drained. The dealer recommended Caltex. Possibly a bad batch of BP Ultimate??

In any event, I have noticed that the engine has quite a pronounced knock/rattle at low revs (> idle) but is more pronounced when the tank is less than half full and somewhat less pronounced when on Caltex.

Having not owned a diesel before, and given the car is new, I am not sure what level of diesel rattle is normal and when?
 
#2 ·
A lot of us on here (most I think) use Caltex Vortex. I have only topped up with BP once and I don’t what was in it when I picked the car up, otherwise always Vortex. It doesn’t rattle any more than what I would say a normal diesel sound is.
There is a thread on here about an unusually high rattle sound.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Is it worse when the motor is cold? There have been some owners that have reported loud engine rattle after a cold start, but disappears after a while.

But normally the Grand Cherokee diesel is quiet compared to other diesels.

Some reading from the other forum:
http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136108
 
#4 ·
I have been filling mine with BP Ultimate since I got it. Not sure what the dealer put in it when I picked it up as it had a full tank.

I can not say I have noticed any excessive rattling, but imo it is a bit nosier when stone cold.

I might try a tank or two of Caltex Vortex and see if I notice a difference.
 
#5 ·
Strange that Jeep seem to blame the fuel in Au for the VM Diesel issues. I mostly use Vortex and have been told BP's the best one to use? That's because of the consistent Cetane rating of around 50? Mine has had no re-occurrence of the "excessive clatter" since they stuck the MOPAR additive in the tank. I have not refuelled it as yet so it will be interesting to see if there experiment works or not. JA are quite aware of this issue as there are quite a few vehicles reported to be doing it now. I believe the service department here have a pretty good idea what's causing it and have indicated they will sort it out after this trial.
 
#7 ·
First post here.

I've had my Laredo for about 3 weeks and a bit over 800k's and haven't actually had to fill the tank yet !

It's going in for the 1000k check in the morning so I'll ask what they had filled it with when I drove it out of the yard.
The servicing sticker states Caltex lubricants so maybe it was Vortex.

I'd read that BP ultimate was the lowest in sulfur (ULS) and also Caltex Vortex. they both have <10ppm but could not find the actual figures.

I noticed that the diesel rattle sound is only slightly more noticeable when stone cold and also more noticeable when under load pulling away from lights 1000-1600rpm. It is more the fact that it runs smooth and sweet from 1800rpm up that you only notice the noise at lower revs.

I sat next to a quite new Hyundai i30 at the lights this morning, window down, and it's diesel was noiser than the JGC.
Nissan patrol 3L 4cyl TD is the worst rattle i've ever heard.

Before buying the JGC i'd tried a Ranger/BT-50, Prado, Hilux, Challenger, and a Territory. The JGC was the smoothest of the lot.


I'll probably fill it with either BP ultimate or Vortex tomorrow and drive it to Brisbane Sunday - ON ONE TANK :D

Coming back via the coast with the van on the back might need to fill up probably once.

I towed the van up to BNE 2 weeks ago behind my old Crewman - filled up 4 times $250+ and ran at 18L/100km.
 
#9 ·
Thanks, enjoying it so far. First diesel I've owned, although driven and rented plenty. My first Jeep too.

Service guys (in Rosebery, Sydney) said they had no idea what is in it when sold, supplied with a full tank.

They recommended "any reputable branded diesel, like say BP or Caltex"

All Diesel in AU is <10 ppm sulfur in the last 6 years and the VM is designed to use it. Older engines (like the D4D:p) knacker injector seals sooner with the lower lubrication, or so I'm told by someone who rebuilds and endless stream of D4D's all day every day.

I've read elsewhere that the "premium" versions do make a difference in economy and burn cleaner and hotter which might be better for keeping the DPF clear which is the only concern I have with it at the moment.

I guess the main brands of Diesel come from the same place anyway, there is probably more variation in the storage condition at individual stations.

Maybe the OP got a dogdy tankful if it really was the difference fuel that caused the excessive rattle noise.
 
#11 ·
I have mine booked for a 10k service in two weeks they mentuon an update to recalibrate/ realign the injectors as I raise the issue of noise after about 1500k. See what comes of it all mine is worse when cold and around 1500rpm under load.
 
#16 ·
X-posted with the "DPF issue 2014" thread

I had this update RRT 14-104 (TSB 18-019-14A) done this morning , not as part of a regular service. Done under warranty.

http://www.wk2jeeps.com/tsb/tsb_wk2_1801914a.pdf


This was for the addressing the detonation/rattle noise at low revs under acceleration developed in the last 1000km or so.


Service guy said that it adjusts the injection sequence for the fuel which stops the injector/knocking noise
(I guess that would be adjusting the timing to cope with different diesels)

He also said that some earlier updates for this issue only lasted a short time but this one SHOULD fix it properly.

Time will tell but it ran sweet and smooth in the 25k back to the office. Can barely hear the injectors noise at all.



He didn't tell me much about the DPF update in this TSB

I haven't had any DPF problems at all but the update is supposed to be a fix for that issue as others have said.

Done 3500km so far in just over 1 mth on Vortex
1200km urban driving
1000km highway unladen - 7.1L/100km
1000km highway towing (1900kg) -12.0L/100k
300km winding country road/dirt (Coffs Harbour/Bellingen/Dorrigo)
 
#17 ·
Hi Steve1307, keep us posted on how you go with the rattle after the update. I will ask for the update to be applied at my 10k service.

Mine is close to 7000kms now and in the last 1500kms I have noticed the rattle as well at idle and low rpm. I have only ever been filling it with BP Ultimate.

I never paid much attention before but after reading this thread I paid a bit more attention and there is defiantly an intermittent loud rattle there.
 
#19 ·
Hi Steve1307, keep us posted on how you go with the rattle after the update. I will ask for the update to be applied at my 10k service.

Mine is close to 7000kms now and in the last 1500kms I have noticed the rattle as well at idle and low rpm. I have only ever been filling it with BP Ultimate.

I never paid much attention before but after reading this thread I paid a bit more attention and there is defiantly an intermittent loud rattle there.
Don't worry about trying to here it. The excessive clatter is so noticeable that I have received comments from bystanders that obviously something is wrong. It runs rough and is noticeably down on power for the initial throttle movement when it occurs.
 
#18 ·
Thanks Steve, Haven't had the update done as yet but have been emailed by Jeep Service to have it done. Still running the test for them with an additive that Jeep service put in the tank for the clatter before the update came out. To date have not had the excessive clatter re-occur and the engine is quieter overall, which is good as these guys must have been on to it. Had the previous update done also, it lasted without problems for over 6 months with fuels from everywhere on travels. Usually only use premium fuel suppliers, so it appears fuel quality is the issue from what Jeep are saying. Hopefully the end for this issue only A/C left to fix. Great.
 
#26 ·
Thanks Hutch and Jtrembath, that's not good to here. Haven't had latest update. Not going to by the sounds of it! Since Nov and them putting an additive in tank the clatter has not returned. Have done just on 750km with additive test (don't know what it was), refuelled using BP and another 150km, still OK. As I have posted in Problems Au, I have no confidence in there latest round of updates after the A/C ongoing stuff -UP.
 
#27 ·
I've done about 270km in the week since updating. The noticeable abnormal clatter noise has not resurfaced...... yet.

I should clarify that there is always some injector noise which varies with revs/engine load etc. This is normal as it's a diesel engine, not a Nissan Leaf electric and the fuel is pressurised to something like 2000bar so it's not going to be completely silent. There is always going to be a "tak, tak, tak, tak" noise which is going to be most audible when the revs are low and when your foot is on the load pedal.
To hear it clearly and distinctly you have to drive with the window open and listen for it.

The abnormal noise I had was a very noticeable loose clatter "K-LAK, K-LAK, K-LAK, K-LAK, " when at low revs and high load when the fuel is injected at higher flow. I could hear it clearly with windows up or down.

As soon as the service guys applied the RRT 14-104 (18-019-14A) PCM update, that type of noise was instantly gone.


Normally running the VM engine is certainly quieter than any new 4 cyl or 5cyl 4WD diesel from Hilux, Ranger, Pajero, Colorado etc.
I test drove all of these before buying the JGC.

Ok there are some smoother like the new 3.0TT in the Landrover and the 4.5V8 in the Cruiser and 4.2V8 Audi but maybe that's the exhaust grumble masking the other noises.

The noisiest new diesel 4WD is probably the Colorado 2.8 there is a significant noticable injector clatter in normal running in that truck.
The 3.0L Nissan Patrol is pretty bad too.


The abnormal Diesel clatter I had in the Jeep was probably only slightly louder but more "loose" sounding than any of the 4cyls. Certainly it's pretty annoying.

When off the pedal (minimal fuel injection) there is no injector noise at all of course.

Hope that helps to describe what (I think) is the normal and abnormal condition.


On a side note: Because I'm an Engineer (groan :rolleyes:) I had been doing a bit of reading about Diesel injectors in modern engines prior to buying this, my first diesel. These things are pretty complicated and a lot has been done to comply with emissions ratings and generally to improve the smoothness of engines in the last 10years or so. Fascinating stuff.

The VM engine has some sort of D-IRS (digital Injection Rate Shaping) developed by Fiat. There appears to be a fine line in the balance between soot production, NOx, combustion noise, power output, economy and of course variations in the fuels.
It's all in controlled in the software and it looks like they are still in the debugging phase.

I feel a bit like a beta tester, but that is becoming the norm these days with all of our various and increasingly complicated electronic devices.
 
#28 ·
Thanks again Steve. Drove a Colorado 2.8 to Darwin from Perth in July 14 and it does have a mild diesel clatter that continues into the mid range rpm's then not too bad for comparison. The Jeep is quieter even when cold than the 2.8 and once warmed up I consider the VM other than just above idle very satisfactory. It's when it spits the dummy that I am complaining about and as I have said before sounding like some piece of 1950 farm machinery that is the issue. It is an old loud tractor diesel clatter.
 
#29 ·
I had the 104 update to the PCM but my clatter which is minor at around 1400 or under a little load, again very minor and more often than not I hardly notice it unless I have radio down.


Hutch- 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Blackhawk.
 
#30 ·
Have had the diesel rattle from new. Always at low revs, 1200 - 2000, and generally under light throttle. Some days are worse than others. Had the PCM upgrade this morning and on the 40km trip home there was no rattle. My vehicle has done 3800 km and always been filled with Caltex Vortex. Have a long trip planned over the long weekend and will post a reply if anything changes.

Michael
 
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