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  #121  
Old 04-02-2014, 08:36 PM
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Re: CRD oil on special

And as an aside, I would be interested to see if the Operating Manual from Chrysler US for any newly delivered vehicles in Australia has been updated to reflect the change in status for Shell Helix because my manual specifically lists Shell Helix as an approved oil. Page 317.

Obviously this is now out of date.
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  #122  
Old 04-03-2014, 12:56 AM
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Re: CRD oil on special

Quote:
Originally Posted by SJandL View Post
And as an aside, I would be interested to see if the Operating Manual from Chrysler US for any newly delivered vehicles in Australia has been updated to reflect the change in status for Shell Helix because my manual specifically lists Shell Helix as an approved oil. Page 317.

Obviously this is now out of date.
This is exactly why I got my nose out of joint with Shell when I found out after much chasing that they had changed the formula and it no longer carried the approvals I had previously ensured and was specifically looking for.

Like many others I had done my homework and checked out technical data on various websites, information I later found out was outdated and incorrect. This information is STILL out there several years later.

An owner doing the right thing can still be informed incorrectly despite their best efforts.

I made this point to Shell Technical Services and they didn't give a rats.

I believe it is arrogant that a decision was made to radically change the formula on an established product such that it no longer carried previous approvals.
Shell could easily have either released a new product or ensured the new formula was equal to or better than the old one.

I don't trust them and will no longer use their products. My little token protest.
John
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  #123  
Old 04-03-2014, 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by John47 View Post
I don't trust them and will no longer use their products. My little token protest. John
Agreed. Zero confidence in Shell. I won't touch them either.
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  #124  
Old 04-17-2014, 11:30 PM
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Re: CRD oil on special

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gr8Ness View Post
Reply to above Technical Enquiry received from Shell Australia today.

"We no longer claim the Chrysler M-11106 specification on the Helix Ultra Extra 5W-30.
The up to date and correct TDS is the one on www.epc.shell.com which does not claim the Chrysler specifications.
We only recommend the Helix Ultra Extra 5W-30 for out of warranty applications.
Our marketing team is working to update the on line data guide.
We apologise for any inconvenience caused."

For what its worth.

Some additional info received after further correspondence with respect to the Shell Technical Enquiry. Read from the bottom email up to get the correct chronological order. Apologies for the delay in posting. Have been busy.

It seems Shell will be once again marketing an oil that will be "approved for Chrysler MS 11106". Sometime in the near future.

Graham

************************************************** ***
From: Technical-au@shell.com [mailto:Technical-au@shell.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 2 April 2014
To: Deleted
Subject: Shell Reference: 6843411 RE: Shell Reference: 6827028 RE: Online Technical Enquiry

Hi Graham,

It is imperative to always use an oil which meets the manufacturer's specifications especially if the vehicle is fitted with a Diesel Particulate Filter.

Kind Regards,
Deleted

************************************************** ******************************
Wednesday, 2 April 2014

Hi Deleted,

You may be aware that owners of MY2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee diesels are experiencing clogged Diesel Particulate Filters and conjecture has it that use of incorrect oil (ie that which does not comply to Chrysler MS 11106) contributes to this occurrence. (Given that low Sulphur fuels have less lubricating properties and thus engine oils have to be of better quality?)

In your expert opinion could the use of incorrect oil be a contributing factor to DPF clogging?

How involved is it to get an oil 'approved' to a vehicle manufacturers specification/standard? Do they (the vehicle manufacturer) have to test it or do you (Shell) test it to a set of criteria and satisfy yourself with its compliance?

Sorry for the questions and I will understand if you don't wish to answer them. I'm just curious.

I look forward to the availability of a MS 11106 compliant Shell oil in the near future.

Regards
Graham

************************************************** ************************************************** ******

From: Technical-au@shell.com [mailto:Technical-au@shell.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 2 April 2014
To: Deleted
Subject: Shell Reference: 6843411 RE: Shell Reference: 6827028 RE: Online Technical Enquiry

Hi Graham,

We will soon be having an oil approved for Chrysler MS 11106 on the market, so you might want to check our website again in the near future.

I shall also keep your details so that I may let you know when the product is available.

Kind Regards,
Deleted

************************************************** ******************************************

Sent: Tuesday, 1 April 2014 9:21 PM
To: SAL Technical AU SAL
Subject: RE: Shell Reference: 6827028 RE: Online Technical Enquiry

Thanks Deleted,

So the TDS on the Website is correct, and the Product Data Guides will be amended in due course by your marketing team. Cool.

Regards
Graham
************************************************** *********************************************
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  #125  
Old 04-18-2014, 12:43 AM
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Re: CRD oil on special

If you read page 16 of the VM Motori Repair Manual available in the VIP area, then you will see they don't specify that MS-11106 must be used. The requirement is simply ACEA-C3.

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  #126  
Old 04-18-2014, 12:53 AM
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Re: CRD oil on special

Rigth importand are ace3 low ash oil for the dpf

I use only mobil 1 formula 5w30 or castrol EDGE Professional C3 0W-30


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  #127  
Old 04-18-2014, 02:30 AM
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Re: CRD oil on special

Quote:
Originally Posted by SNUKE View Post
If you read page 16 of the VM Motori Repair Manual available in the VIP area, then you will see they don't specify that MS-11106 must be used. The requirement is simply ACEA-C3.

Yes Snuke, this has just came to light now that a member has made the Engine Manual available to us.

It still does say; Oil meeting these standards (5W-30 is a Standard, so is ACEA-C3) and the Chrysler Material Standard MS-11106....

I, like Sox, will play it safe and use a 5W-30 oil meeting ACEA-C3 and MS-11106. Namely Mobil 1™ ESP Formula 5W-30.
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  #128  
Old 04-18-2014, 04:28 AM
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Re: CRD oil on special

Understand why people want to be 'safe' but as I read the manual the requirement is "use full synthetic 5W-30 low ash oil that meets ACEA-30" . The reference to MS-11106 is related to where it can be sourced not that it is a mandated requirement.

That's how I would read it for a legal prescriptive; in relation to how the manual wording is constructed. So this would mean there wouldn't, on face value, be a reason to invalidate a claim based solely on the manual wording.
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  #129  
Old 04-18-2014, 04:52 AM
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Re: CRD oil on special

Quote:
Originally Posted by zzkazu View Post
Understand why people want to be 'safe' but as I read the manual the requirement is "use full synthetic 5W-30 low ash oil that meets ACEA-30" . The reference to MS-11106 is related to where it can be sourced not that it is a mandated requirement.
zzKazu, Snuke,

I agree with you both that the requirement from VM Motori is to "use full synthetic 5W-30 low ash oil that meets ACEA-C3", and the MS-11106 is the Chrysler "requirement" that is secondary. Just as I suspect that should the VM Motori engine be fitted to a Tata ute that maybe Tata would specify to "use full synthetic 5W-30 low ash oil that meets ACEA-C3" and TS-ABC101.

TS-ABC101 being Tata's 'requirement'.

Gr8Ness.

But, I'll leave nothing to chance here ....
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  #130  
Old 04-18-2014, 05:26 PM
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Re: CRD oil on special

By my reasoning the engine is one part of the package, Chrysler purchase this and engineer it into a package that includes emissions control systems, and the software to manage them. These additional items have their own requirements as to what oil spec is required. That's where I see the MS11106 as being particularly relevant.
Gr8ness has had a bit more input from Shell, but nothing that contributes to the question as to whether use of their oil may contribute to an issue with a 2014 DPF.
My views on the company are unchanged and I'm sticking with the spec oil.
John
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  #131  
Old 04-18-2014, 06:53 PM
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Re: CRD oil on special

ACEA stands for the Association des Constructeurs Europeens d’Automobiles, the association of European automobile manufacturers. Like the API service classifications that have been used in the US and Australia for many years, the European ACEA system is the accepted standard in Europe, and is appearing more frequently in Australia.

ACEA Standards

ACEA standards recognise that European engines differ from US (style) engines in both their design and operating conditions and that the demands on their oils are also different. This requires the oils used in European engines to be unique and consequently, the classification system for them also needs to be unique. For this reason it is difficult to compare the common API classification and ACEA standards, as the test sequences for them are quite different.

Some ACEA standards also take into account the effect the oil has on engine emissions and emission control systems. This is very much more important for engines that need to meet the much tighter Euro emission standards now applicable in Europe and Australia.

An example of a typical ACEA oil specification is 0W – 40 A3.

ACEA Categories

Major oil companies are providing ACEA classifications on the packaging of compliant oils. Generally only the higher quality synthetic or part synthetic oils will meet ACEA standards. Oils that do not carry ACEA classifications should be regarded as not meeting these standards.

ACEA categories
A / B / C / E – Petrol and diesel engine oils

(A = petrol engines, B = light duty diesel engines, C= catalyst compatible oils, E = heavy duty diesel engines)

A1 / B1

Oils intended for use in petrol and diesel car and light commercial vehicles specifically capable of using low friction, low viscosity oils with high temperature / high shear characteristics.

A3 / B3

For use in high performance petrol and diesel cars and light commercials where extended drain intervals are specified by the vehicle manufacturer and / or for year-round use of low viscosity oils and / or for use in severe operating conditions as defined by the vehicle manufacturer.

A3 / B4

For use in high performance petrol and direct injection diesel engines. Also suitable for applications described under B3.

A5 / B5

For use in high performance car and light commercial petrol and diesel engines designed for low viscosity oils where extended oil change intervals are specified by the vehicle manufacturer.

C - Catalyst compatible oils

C1, C2, C3 and C4

For use in high performance car and light commercial petrol and diesel engines, with diesel particulate filter, three-way catalyst and / or requiring low viscosity, low friction, catalyst-compatible oils.

Specific vehicle manufacturer oil specifications
It is common for vehicle and engine manufacturers to define a particular oil specification for their product. This is very common with European vehicle manufacturers and heavy diesel engine manufacturers. VW 503.0, VW 508.00, Cummins CES 20081 and Detroit Diesel DDC PGOS 93K218 are a few examples. Usually there is no way for an end user to easily align these requirements to the more commonly used specifications, so unless the particular specification you require is mentioned in the oils spec sheet your selection should be guided by an oil manufacturer.

I think MS-11106 is simply defining that the motor oil used in the 3.0 CRD needs to meet ACEA-C3

I found the above info on the RACQ website.

Also, I found that Mopar actually sell Pennzoil as the oil for use in the VM 3.0 CRD.
PENNZOIL ULTRA L 5W-30
full Synthetic
Approved for 3.0L CRD (WK) and Sprinter
3.0L OM642 (VB).
1 Quart (32 oz.) Bottle MSQ: 6
Part No. 68001334PB
750 Quart Pallet MSQ: 1
Part No. 68001335PA
MS-11106 (MB-229.51)

(Page 17 of the attached document)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf chemicals.pdf (3.41 MB, 4 views)
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  #132  
Old 04-18-2014, 07:07 PM
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Re: CRD oil on special

Quote:
Originally Posted by iboughtajeep View Post
I think MS-11106 is simply defining that the motor oil used in the 3.0 CRD needs to meet ACEA-C3
No, it's an addition specification / requirement. I suspect that many C3 oils would meet this test / requirement, but they has not had the approvals done.
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