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  #13  
Old 10-18-2012, 08:59 PM
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Re: CRD oil on special

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Originally Posted by allypally View Post
I might just revert back to Singer Sewing Machine oil.

.... or Castrol!!!!

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  #14  
Old 10-18-2012, 11:13 PM
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Re: CRD oil on special

If the revised Shell Helix Ultra Extra does not comply with ACEA C3, then do not use. Lets wait till John gets more info back from Shell.
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  #15  
Old 10-19-2012, 04:30 AM
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Re: CRD oil on special

Both containers outline ACEA C3 compliance
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  #16  
Old 10-19-2012, 03:13 PM
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Re: CRD oil on special

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Just for interest folks Sol (Max Cullen) is still around and living in Gunning. He runs a little second hand book shop in the old theatre.
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  #17  
Old 10-19-2012, 07:08 PM
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Re: CRD oil on special

Further to the Shell Ultra Extra 5W-30 saga.......... I called in to my local Supercheap this morning and all the stock they had on the shelves had the Chrysler MS11106 approval on the label. They price bettered the Repco price to $48/5l and I picked up 2.
Took the 5l back to Repco that didn't have the approval and they credited it back. (same barcode for containers with and without approval!).

I'm sorted now for a couple of oil changes down the track, but will still chase Shell for answers as to why the approval has disappeared.
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  #18  
Old 10-20-2012, 12:23 AM
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Re: CRD oil on special

My guess is that Shell slightly changed their formula, and as yet have not had the compliance testing done. Therefore, the label change.
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  #19  
Old 10-22-2012, 04:55 PM
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Re: CRD oil on special

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Originally Posted by John47 View Post
Well the situation hasn't improved.
progress report from email received from Shell Technical Services today.......
"Hi John,
It appears you bought old and new product formulations off the same shelf. The current (since Feb 2012) formulation for Helix Ultra Extra 5W-30 does not claim any formal ACEA specifications (including C2 & C3) or Chrysler MS-11106 specification (including some other OEM’s). There was a change from a formulation developed in XHVI (that carried an ACEA claim), to a new formulation in Yubase/PAO that uses a different additive.

At the moment, we don’t currently have a product on which we can claim Chrysler MS-11106.(To Claim MS-11106 you need to meet MB 229.51 + the TEOST test.)

If you require follow up information on your query, please quote the reference number for your case from the subject line of this email."

and my immediate return email.....

"Thank you for your reply….but I must say I am more confused and concerned than I previously was.

You noted "The current (since Feb 2012) formulation for Helix Ultra Extra 5W-30 does not claim any formal ACEA specifications (including C2 & C3) " and "you need to meet MB 229.51".

The apparently new stock container that I have is marked with ACEA C3 and MB 229.51 amongst a number of other manufacturer approvals. Your website product information for this oil confirms this. The Chrysler MS11106 being deleted is the only information that seems to be different from previous.

It seems your advice is in conflict with the container and website information - or am I missing something??

Can this oil be safely used in my 2012 CRD Jeep Grand Cherokee without compromising the engine or Chrysler warranty?

I would appreciate if you can clarify.
Thanks"

This is turning into much harder work than I anticipated.
John
the saga continues.....email ping pong today.....

"Hi John,

The wording on the data sheet (see attached) and hopefully on the label, should read - ‘Meets engine test performance requirements: ACEA C3, A3/B3, A3/B4’. The emphasis being on the word ‘meets’ as opposed to ‘approved’ to.

If you require follow up information on your query, please quote the reference number for your case from the subject line of this email."

Um is it just me that can't understand that response???
hence my reply -


"Hello ......,
Thanks for the reply - but I don't see my direct question answered, and I have to say I am finding this exercise very frustrating.
As a long time Shell fuel and lubricant customer I am disappointed to say the least.

In summary from my side……

The "old" Helix Ultra Extra 5W-30 was claimed to have MS11106 approval - any Internet search right now will show the oil and approval in combination, and provide links to confirmation data sheets or brochures.
In the recent past something has changed and the "new" oil no longer shows that approval on any labelling. I simply wanted to find out whether it is safe and approved by the manufacturer to use in my vehicle.

You advised me in a previous email that the "new" oil no longer claims ACEA C3 - I queried that, along with a direct question regarding this oil relative to my vehicle and am none the wiser - simply don't understand, from your latest answer. I have no clue whether I can, or can't use it.

Any potential purchaser doing his homework on the Internet for an MS11106 oil will still come up with the same information and documentation for the "old" oil, and likely purchase the "new" oil and use it in error - simply because they have been provided the wrong outdated answer.
The potential issues for the customer and Shell are major, should an engine problem occur that could be oil related.

I find it difficult to believe that this potential hasn't been thought through inside Shell before making such a change, given the problem in disseminating correct information and removing outdated information available widely on the world wide web.

So - in future I am likely not to purchase Shell lubricant - because I won't trust it to be what I think it is.

I mentioned previously that I was an active member of a number of Australian and International caravan and Jeep forums - and have noted this saga in posts to inform other members.
My follow up posts now will be along the lines of the above and readers can make up their own minds about use of this or other Shell product.

I guess in the scale of Shell my question regarding this oil is only a tiny speck, however it is important to me and any number of others that care for their vehicles and take pains to research and procure the best quality materials for service. As I noted before - very disappointing from my perspective not to be able to get definitive and clear answers.
John"

O dear.
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  #20  
Old 10-22-2012, 07:58 PM
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Re: CRD oil on special

Looks like that Shell have indeed changed the formulation from XHVI to Yubase and that is why they can no longer claim the MS 1106 and ACEA C3 approvals. That doesn't mean that the oil would not past the necessary tests to get those approvals, rather it is more likely that the tests have not been done.

In the interim I think the safest bet is for us to find a new oil.

The only oil that I can find that specifically mentions and meets the following specs:

5W-30
MS 11106
ACEA C3
MB 229.51

is Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30.

In Perth, I can get this oil from Repco as a special order, albeit in a 20 litre drum.

Be warned that it is expensive.

While I'm certainly not a Mobil fan, I see little alternative at the moment.
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  #21  
Old 10-22-2012, 09:10 PM
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Re: CRD oil on special

Here is an alternative that seems to meet or exceed all the requirements -

Nulon 5 w 30 Diesel Full Synthetic


Full Synthetic 5W-30 Diesel Formula Long Life Engine Oil- Nulon Australia

Approvals and specifications



Meets or exceeds the following oil industry specifications:
  • American Petroleum Institute : API CF/SM
  • European : ACEA C3-08, A5/B5-04
  • Society of Automotive Engineers : SAE 5W-30
Meets or exceeds the performance requirements of the following vehicle manufacturer's specifications:
  • BMW: LL-04
  • Mercedes Benz: MB 229.51
  • General Motors: GM Dexos 2®
  • Volkswagen: VW 502.00, 505.00, 505.01
Meets or exceeds other manufacturer's requirements including:
  • Ford
  • Holden
  • Hyundai
  • Land Rover
  • Mitsubishi
  • Nissan
  • Subaru
  • Range Rover
Requirement in manual is:

"that meet the requirements of Chrysler Material
Standard MS-11106, and that are approved to
Mercedes Benz MB 229.31 or MB 229.51 and
ACEA C3"
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  #22  
Old 10-22-2012, 09:46 PM
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Re: CRD oil on special

Technically doesn't neet MS-11106 though.

There are a few oils that meet ACEA C3 & MB 229.51 but very few have approval for MS-11106.

Having said that I don't think any of the dealers use oil that complies with MS 11106. It is purely a surety for warranty issue if changing your own oil.
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  #23  
Old 10-22-2012, 10:18 PM
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Re: CRD oil on special

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampy View Post
Technically doesn't neet MS-11106 though.

There are a few oils that meet ACEA C3 & MB 229.51 but very few have approval for MS-11106.

Having said that I don't think any of the dealers use oil that complies with MS 11106. It is purely a surety for warranty issue if changing your own oil.
For sure the main reason I incline towards the MS11106 is because I am supplying my own oil to the dealer and I want to have all boxes ticked - otherwise my alternative is to pay the dealer price for his oil - that likely doesn't comply anyway.

An interesting point though (and probably the only worthwhile one from Shell) is the comment to be MS11106 the oil has to meet MB229.51 + the TEOST test. Not having a clue about oil I googled TEOST and it appears it is an ash residue test relating to oil exposed to a hot metal bar.
As the CRD requires a low ash oil this test is likely a confirmation of minimum gunk deposits in an engine.
With the exhaust gas recirculation on these things sounds to me like my vehicle would appreciate it.
Once I use up the "old" Shell oil I have stocked I'll be looking for another MS11106 oil.

It is a shame that I can't get Shell to say that they are in process of testing and expect the "new' oil to meet or exceed all approvals applicable to the "old" - that would have bypassed all this guff.
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  #24  
Old 10-22-2012, 11:19 PM
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Re: CRD oil on special

For Those that are interested here is what the oil specs overlayed on Lubrizols comparison tool.


1st pic is Nulons Full Synthetic 5W-30 Diesel Formula.




2nd is the Shell Extra Ultra 5W-30 that is the topic of this discussion.




3rd is Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30



Not sure of the accuracy of this tool and other than MS 11106 that is not included in this tool, it does put the specs in context.

The Mobil looks to be the most comprehensive and does list MS 11106.
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