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  #25  
Old 11-02-2013, 08:04 AM
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Re: disaster test drive might mean end of jeep aspirations

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Originally Posted by outNabout View Post
your a city bloke arnt ya, love to meet you in the bush, we sort bad mannered ppl like you out real quick
For someone who places such importance on manners, some veiled threat suggesting some attitude re-adjustment in the bush for the city folk is pretty lame. Also pretty lame is describing "people like you" on the basis of one reply from a person who continually provides honest, helpful advice to anyone who asks on this forum. Not even going to try and make sense of any reference to the 'ugliness' of another on this, or any other forum. Making that sort of assessment after bashing on a few keys defies belief.

So, if we can put aside the misinterpreted comments and insinuations..........

Like others have tried to point out, you have every reason following your experience with the dealer and the test drive to look at other manufacturers........but the Jeep GC from the experience I have had since buying one is certainly worth another look. With respect, the L/Cruiser 200 series is a dinosaur in comparison. I have gone from a L/R Discovery to the JGC and can assure you the 4WD capability of the Jeep is every bit as comprehensive as the Disco, if not better in some regard. If you don't need the 7 seats, the Jeep GC has to be a serious option for the Disco 4 and possibly the RR Sport.

Anyway, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, irrespective if that opinion is based on fact or fiction. Hopefully this forum has given you some alternative perspective to compare with the experience of the dealer and the test drive from hell. Its not compulsory, you can take it or leave it, but it is offered in goodwill.

And if you do happen to come across any of us simple city folk in the bush, I'd like to think you would offer the same amount of help as the vast majority on this forum would extend to you. I think you will find most don't need 'sorting out'.

Best of luck with your decision making.
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  #26  
Old 11-02-2013, 08:13 AM
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Re: disaster test drive might mean end of jeep aspirations

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Originally Posted by SNUKE View Post
Jeezuz, I don't think I would buy one after that either.
I also wouldn't buy any vehicle from that dealership with the amount of crap that came of their mouths.
I am with SNUKE, 20" standard suspension drives the same as air Suspension. Ya sure and a 1997 Grand Am off roads exactly like a Wrangler. Sure!
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:01 AM
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Re: disaster test drive might mean end of jeep aspirations

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Originally Posted by Berg570 View Post
For someone who places such importance on manners, some veiled threat suggesting some attitude re-adjustment in the bush for the city folk is pretty lame. Also pretty lame is describing "people like you" on the basis of one reply from a person who continually provides honest, helpful advice to anyone who asks on this forum. Not even going to try and make sense of any reference to the 'ugliness' of another on this, or any other forum. Making that sort of assessment after bashing on a few keys defies belief.

So, if we can put aside the misinterpreted comments and insinuations..........

pretty easy to take someone out of context, but i think you know that, i dont respond well to sarcasm or bullies and we both know who started that, wasnt me! and we see who is following up and continuing, not me...
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Originally Posted by Berg570 View Post
Like others have tried to point out, you have every reason following your experience with the dealer and the test drive to look at other manufacturers........but the Jeep GC from the experience I have had since buying one is certainly worth another look. With respect, the L/Cruiser 200 series is a dinosaur in comparison. I have gone from a L/R Discovery to the JGC and can assure you the 4WD capability of the Jeep is every bit as comprehensive as the Disco, if not better in some regard. If you don't need the 7 seats, the Jeep GC has to be a serious option for the Disco 4 and possibly the RR Sport.


this at least is getting to something i can get my teeth around, its interesting.
which LR model did you have?
i'd disagree about the LC200 being a dinosaur although it is more old school so i see where your coming from, its in a transitional stage if you ask me, half live axel and half IFS, the tech used has zero need to be high tech for off road ability on these type vehicles, high tech is absolutely needed with independent sus cars such as the GC etc due to them not having as good articulation as live axels vehicles.

it doesnt particularly make the lc200 less capable in the bush, probably the opposite for many, as many folk still know how to drive their vehicles rather than letting the computer work it out for them, i acept on a forum there may well be a bunch of people who like or need the poota to do the work, n o big deal from pov...if you want a vehicle to be good both on road and off road then it all changes, which is why i look at the GC or land rovers, the body and suspension obviously work better for on road. entry price to LR is about exit price for GC, so a base model you miss out on some electric tricks but gain extra seats etc

with my test drive in the GC i thought it slightly truck like to to drive but a huge step up from a wrangler, the LC200 is somewhere in-between imo, but the on road manners of the lc200 is better than one might think imo. I've yet to have a good drive in the new LR4 or RRS or RR so i will reserve my opinion on them. word of mouth sounds promising though for both on road and off


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Originally Posted by Berg570 View Post
Anyway, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, irrespective if that opinion is based on fact or fiction. Hopefully this forum has given you some alternative perspective to compare with the experience of the dealer and the test drive from hell. Its not compulsory, you can take it or leave it, but it is offered in goodwill.

well once we dismiss the valueless taking the mickey comments there have been a couple or so worthwhile comments, i dont require you to tell me to take it or leave it, each individual offers there own good wishes, thanks all the same you dont need to be their proxy

i was wondering how my test drive rated, test drive from hell is somehow comforting. naturally i wasn't impressed, so much so i posted about it several days later because i didn't want too much emotion creeping in, believe me i could have made i sound worse


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Originally Posted by Berg570 View Post
And if you do happen to come across any of us simple city folk in the bush, I'd like to think you would offer the same amount of help as the vast majority on this forum would extend to you. I think you will find most don't need 'sorting out'.

Best of luck with your decision making.
please spare me the BS simple city folk jargon, i have shook more hands and helped more people/strangers on a quiet road or track than i've had hot dinners, pretty close anyway. my mistake here was thinking people understood me as a person or who i am rather than just someone asking a question or hoping for weird support.


cheers
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Old 11-02-2013, 04:09 PM
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Re: disaster test drive might mean end of jeep aspirations

WOW. This thread sure didn't take long to get somewhat sidetracked into a slinging match. No wonder all I picked up on earlier, was the reference to beer.
To the OP, Outnbout, I sympathise with your initial experience with the Grand Cherokee. I am sure your's was a unique experience, and probably if it happened to me, a Jeep would never be in my livery.
However, as others have already pointed out, the Jeep is not everyone's cup of tea, so if you feel more comfortable in another brand, go for it. No one will lose any sleep over it, except probably the moronic dealer you went to.
Good luck with your search.
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  #29  
Old 11-02-2013, 06:39 PM
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Re: disaster test drive might mean end of jeep aspirations

I'm with Ally as per his post above….
And certainly OutNabout as already pointed out to you, you did strike a salesman that was ill informed and fed you rubbish, and a vehicle that had an issue - it did let you know - that is what the red light on the dash was for.
You did note that you had lurked on this forum for a while.
If you had taken notice of the sort of language used, and how posters relate to information provided, and posted in a similar manner, there may not have been the response to your first post that others had. A comment including a threat to "sort out" someone won't be well received on any forum.
Again through lurking and reading the information on this forum likely you would have already noted that there haven't been any reports of issues with DPF clogging or regeneration, and there are plenty of reasonably high kms clocked up with CRDs by people who post here.
A read through the sand driving training thread will provide plenty of input as to how capable off road the WK2 can be, so again you won't be as influenced by rubbish comments from vested interest car salesmen.
You also highlighted concerns regarding the air suspension using nitrogen as the medium. This closed, pressurised system allows for quicker response and a smaller air compressor. If there was a failure in the scrub it could be filled with air just as a tyre can be filled with air or nitrogen - certainly I wouldn't be camped on the Canning waiting for a cylinder to arrive. Again there are few and far between reports of issues now with the air suspension system. I'm very happy with mine.
Good luck with your search for another vehicle, I'd like to suggest you find another dealer and go for another drive in a WK2 that doesn't have issues. I'm sure you'll be suitably impressed.
If you do try out a LC200 be sure to give it a try parking in a supermarket or underground parking lot.
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  #30  
Old 11-02-2013, 08:03 PM
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Re: disaster test drive might mean end of jeep aspirations


I actually quite enjoy these sort of threads - a bit of entertainment!

A quick question to the OP;
Who was the original dealer? If you're a bit shy on naming directly (that's OK), a locality would suffice. I (and no doubt others) are in the market for a new GC and am in process of weeding so any info would be most appreciated.

If it's any consolation I'm based in the country too and drive a WJ, western unsealed roads, pretty tough environment for any vehicle. It is due for replacement and I will be going the Jeep route again ('14+ WK2). I am very familar with the Landcruisers (owned plenty) in my environment and the Jeep is the superior vehicle, in my experience. As others have said; find another dealer and have another test drive before making a decision to walk from Jeep.

Whilst I cannot vouch for the durability of the WK2 platform, I can say that my WJ has done over 400,000km and these have been very hard and fast. The vehicle has been put to pretty serious work, work that many owners in this forum might regard as abuse, but it is what we do. Based on results to date I'm happy to continue supporting Jeep, regardless your interesting test drive story (thanks for sharing by the way).

On the other stuff; why don't you just try to let all the comments go through the keeper mate - life's too short! Also, I note you can use the shift key as a capital is in your name. Why not put a capital at the start of sentences, it makes an enormous difference to the readability of the text. Most importantly, readers would take it with a little more respect and might not be so quick to "take the mickey" - just my 2c..
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Old 11-04-2013, 06:28 PM
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Re: disaster test drive might mean end of jeep aspirations

Just on dealers, there are dealers and there are dealers. One of the dealers I went to didn't know what he was talking about, so I moved on to a different one. I'd suggest if that is an option for you it might be worth a 2nd go.

The 4wd systems of the LD4 and the GC are similar, they both rely on electronics and TC to manage wheelspin, but I wouldn't say they are based on each other, they have been developed over time independently. In real world tests the disco seems to come out on top most of the time, but the GC still seems to make it everywhere the discos do. I'm pretty sure the 3.0 discos do have a dpf. I don't think dpfs are a problem, they should burn out fairly quickly. Nissan use to have a big problem with them, but I haven't heard any of those types of issues reported on the GC.

The cruiser is a different beast, it is heavy and it feels it. My father inlaw has a 200, and it has had ongoing problems with dirty fuel filters. There are other issues floating around with them, the injector problems were a big one, but have apparently been fixed now.

It really depends on what you want to do with it, but for me the GC seems to be the best fit and best value.
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Old 11-05-2013, 09:45 AM
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Re: disaster test drive might mean end of jeep aspirations

As a current owner of a 2012 (2013 MY) Land Rover Discovery 4 HSE Luxury, and 2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland CRD I feel justified to make the following observations:

Jeep was $50k less than the Land Rover, and has more equipment / add ons than the LR

Both ride on air suspension, and can't say one is particularly better than the other in this respect.

Both have 20" alloy wheels, but the LR tyres are lower profile. Have had to get rims repaired twice on LR consequently.

Overall LR better screwed together, but price difference makes hard to justify.

LR has a better on road presence, and more command driving position.

Ultimately I keep pinching the wife's Jeep to go to work in ( I have a 40 min freeway commute each way) so if I was choosing as you are I think I would save the money, go for the Jeep, and still be just as happy, if not happier with my purchase.

Dealer selection was paramount for the purchase of both of these vehicles, and I have travelled out of my way to get the level of service I expect, rather than a muppet like the one it seems you ended up with.
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Old 11-06-2013, 03:45 AM
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Re: disaster test drive might mean end of jeep aspirations

first and formost i would like to thank a couple of the very helpful and supportive pM,s i have had. sorry i have not replied yet, but i wanted to take 'a breath' (i hope you understand) and also i have been further researching and contemplating (partly due to your kind info given) which way is best for me to go before i answer or asked further questions of you. again that you kindly offered to help with my dilemma and questions is most appreciated. thank you


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Originally Posted by John47 View Post
I'm with Ally as per his post above….
And certainly OutNabout as already pointed out to you, you did strike a salesman that was ill informed and fed you rubbish, and a vehicle that had an issue - it did let you know - that is what the red light on the dash was for.
You did note that you had lurked on this forum for a while.
If you had taken notice of the sort of language used, and how posters relate to information provided, and posted in a similar manner, there may not have been the response to your first post that others had. A comment including a threat to "sort out" someone won't be well received on any forum.

on reflection no doubt you are right, however please note that i simply responded to remarks/people that admitted they were having a (personal) go at me and taking the mickey. it was not friendly help, just clicky people being cruel.

also please understand that when i said 'we sort people like you out' its not a physical threat, as though, i am going to punch you out or your knock your head in type stuff (if thats what i meant i would have said that, i speak plainly), its more like ,if you are rude, disrespectful, arrogant beyond belief or just plain bad mannered then we have ways of dealing with people like that...e.g we give you the room with cockroaches or bad water, we give you poor directions, we dont acknowledge you at all, basically have a laugh at your expense after you demonstrated you are bad mannered or a hundred other ways. if your a bloke and you take it so far then it might get physical, mostly i havnt seen that happen in years as its not really the way nowadays, occasionally some blue tougne full of booze at the pub might need looking after but he doesnt get too hurt, mostly his pride.

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Originally Posted by John47 View Post
Again through lurking and reading the information on this forum likely you would have already noted that there haven't been any reports of issues with DPF clogging or regeneration, and there are plenty of reasonably high kms clocked up with CRDs by people who post here.

well iam happy to hear your report but i have read just the opposite, many accounts of ppl with problems regarding this. so its still an item to research at least imo. the salesman words of 'dont buy this if its used for commuting in the city' is still loud in my ears
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Originally Posted by John47 View Post
A read through the sand driving training thread will provide plenty of input as to how capable off road the WK2 can be, so again you won't be as influenced by rubbish comments from vested interest car salesmen.

i actually (having now read and reaffirmed what i originally learnt) dont doubt the ability when all is working as it should, although completely weird that the salesman downrated its ability. however i did read of more than one person being stranded on the beach when the computer had some sort of fault and directed the car to only use 2wd (which made them stuck), they had to have it towed out...i could find the link (think it was this forum) or it might be just as easy if you search. so i dont ness doubt the capability of GC just that it seems there are some computer quirks that have caused some serious problems for those concerned

weird thing (pretending as though there was only one weird thing) about the car salesman (actually the manager) is he didnt sell toyota or land rover, he just recommended them above the Jeep is all (for off raod work), which he does sell...dont ask me to explain it, it makes no sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by John47 View Post
You also highlighted concerns regarding the air suspension using nitrogen as the medium. This closed, pressurised system allows for quicker response and a smaller air compressor. If there was a failure in the scrub it could be filled with air just as a tyre can be filled with air or nitrogen - certainly I wouldn't be camped on the Canning waiting for a cylinder to arrive. Again there are few and far between reports of issues now with the air suspension system. I'm very happy with mine.


thanks very much for this report, its very, very encouraging, i guess it needs to be verified first since i havnt heard it anywhere else yet. e.g i understand the LR uses air suspension, and an emergency suspension repair kit that can be purchased after market is available for it, in the event you get stuck in the bush.

i havnt seen anything like this for the GC, in fact the air suspension on the GC needs a special tool (that no country town in australia is likely to own-(research indicates its about $550-$650 au) and is said to need 99.99% pure nitrogen to refill it ...

if it can be filled using just air that would be welcomed, to get out of trouble, not sure the pressures needed but most interesting..i hope you or someone else can elaborate on this

Quote:
Originally Posted by John47 View Post
Good luck with your search for another vehicle, I'd like to suggest you find another dealer and go for another drive in a WK2 that doesn't have issues. I'm sure you'll be suitably impressed.
If you do try out a LC200 be sure to give it a try parking in a supermarket or underground parking lot.
John
thank you, i think the general opinion is the dealer is something of a ....well i dont know the right word for it...they are still calling me btw..i am screening calls its getting so bad

i did take a LC200 sahara for a decent test drive as it happens, it has it pluses and bad points...for such an outward looking 'big' vehicle i didn't have any problem driving it in traffic, vision/windows is good compared to GC and handling was much better than expected, e.g it was much better than old LC i have driven and better than old patrols i have driven for 100's of 000's of K's, same for may many other 4by vehicles

it was not perfect though (what is) it has poor head room for a tall bloke like me and i find it even more amazing/crazy since i am tall for my generation but not that tall for people nowadays. young folk now are routinely 6"2-3-4' or more (my kids), but i can barely fit in the LC without a seat mod, must be designed for very short people. country handling probably doesnt make much difference between the two(GC wins if one has to pick though) i'd say the GC has the edge over it in the city but the vision is quite bad out the windows so getting the overlander with its electric blind spot warnings probably helps, it does handle slightly better on highway so i guess it has that..the advantage the LC200 has is if you want up the GVM its easy and cheap enough..why do you want to ugrade the GVM, just because so many people put on bull bars, long range tanks and all the off road bling...if you do that to the GC you wont legally have enough room for people, maybe even the driver will have to sit outside

but indeed i do get where you are coming from re parking in city or supermarkets , the LC200 is big but i actually tested parking and found it was pretty good, compared to the GC not much difference but also consider that i have been happily driving fairlanes/LTD's and parking them day in day out so big cars dont bother me at all (in this respect the LC200 was easy compared, really i dint find the GC so much different). actually if you look at the stats the GC has a longer wheelbase (which i figure must make it ever so slightly more comfy on the highway but slightly more difficult to park) than the LC200, its just that the LC200 has a longer body (rear end), which i assume is meant to help with its cargo capacity but makes its off road departure angle terrible
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Old 11-06-2013, 03:49 AM
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Re: disaster test drive might mean end of jeep aspirations

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Originally Posted by Davo View Post

I actually quite enjoy these sort of threads - a bit of entertainment!
you got me there, i've read posts like this before and thought they were funny too
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Originally Posted by Davo View Post
A quick question to the OP;
Who was the original dealer? If you're a bit shy on naming directly (that's OK), a locality would suffice. I (and no doubt others) are in the market for a new GC and am in process of weeding so any info would be most appreciated.
Davo, your in NSW it appears, i dont see how an adelaide dealer helps you. and individual might be sacked next month or next year i wouldnt like to hang anything arounfd his neck, not yet anyway. not one of the dealers that have a big jeep suspended from a pole out front though, more a place that sells exotic and hugely expensive euro cars etc...yep i get the idea. but they offered and so i looked

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Originally Posted by Davo View Post

If it's any consolation I'm base in the country too and drive a WJ, western unsealed roads, pretty tough environment for any vehicle. It is due for replacement and I will be going the Jeep route again ('14+ WK2). I am very familar with the Landcruisers (owned plenty) in my environment and the Jeep is the superior vehicle, in my experience. As others have said; find another dealer and have another test drive before making a decision to walk from Jeep.

Whilst I cannot vouch for the durability of the WK2 platform, I can say that my WJ has done over 400,000km and these have been very hard and fast. The vehicle has been put to pretty serious work, work that many owners in this forum might regard as abuse, but it is what we do. Based on results to date I'm happy to continue supporting Jeep, regardless your interesting test drive story (thanks for sharing by the way).

On the other stuff; why don't you just try to let all the comments go through the keeper mate - life's too short! Also, I note you can use the shift key as a capital is in your name. Why not put a capital at the start of sentences, it makes an enormous difference to the readability of the text. Most importantly, readers would take it with a little more respect and might not be so quick to "take the mickey" - just my 2c..
very heartening to hear a long service record with an old jeep, like you say it doesnt have any simulaities with the WK2 but its at least a welcomed good jeep story.

i definitely should have let some of those comment go through to the keeper, normally would have ,but ya know , some times, once in a blue moon ya get tired of it , or maybe its just these dam salesmen bugging me lately. sorry about the shift key, normally i figure i do a real good job as it is (obviously not the local opinion here lol) my fingers are too big and un-benable and have that pain that starts with an A, its taken me a long time to learn to type as it is, i havnt learnt how to bend my fingers to the shift key often yet, so if possible please forgive.
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Old 11-06-2013, 04:09 AM
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Re: disaster test drive might mean end of jeep aspirations

OutNabout - firstly let me apologise for my previous posts with regards to your posts.

I can only explain it in such a way, that I am very protective of the Jeep brand and am constantly combating the brands reputation within my own social circle. I hear it constantly from friends and family - why did you buy another Jeep? I'm so sick of hearing it.

You cannot explain to them that we were and still are very happy with our '07 JGC which has caused us no issues - unlike the last few days - have just spent in excess of $6000 on a Holden and a Honda Prelude which are also in the family.

I said to my husband just yesterday, (when the bills rocked in from the dealerships for those cars), isn't it ironic that the very vehicles that are supposedly on the most unreliable list are the very ones that have cost us almost nothing in the last 5 years.

Obviously, MY14 is still in warranty but has not needed to visit the workshop yet (booked in next week for her first 10,000km service) but more importantly, '07 rocks on and gives us zero issues.

Let me again apologise for our 'tangle' that we had on the weekend. I'm so protective of the Jeep that sometimes I forget myself.

I'm very sorry that we exchanged words.

Your experience that you had with that particular dealership is inexcusable. If I had had that experience, I would also be very wary of the Jeep.

I hope that you can give the vehicle another look, at a different dealership.

All the best with whatever you decide.
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  #36  
Old 11-06-2013, 04:41 AM
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iboughtajeep has a reputation beyond reputeiboughtajeep has a reputation beyond reputeiboughtajeep has a reputation beyond reputeiboughtajeep has a reputation beyond reputeiboughtajeep has a reputation beyond reputeiboughtajeep has a reputation beyond reputeiboughtajeep has a reputation beyond reputeiboughtajeep has a reputation beyond reputeiboughtajeep has a reputation beyond reputeiboughtajeep has a reputation beyond reputeiboughtajeep has a reputation beyond repute
Interesting read. If having something like air suspension fail is a problem, then why would you get a vehicle with air suspension? If the only fuel available is unleaded, then why would you buy a diesel?
The DPF issue is a concern, however, ive got 3 service vehicles in my business that spend 85%+ time in the CBD and they have DPF fitted without problems. All 3 vehicles have above 70,000 klm. One of wich is over 100k. Its highly possible that some of the engine tunes may be slightly different causing a higher amount of soot to be caught up in the filter. Essentially, that is what the DPF is for. Its a soot trap. Its also possible that there were a batch of defective filters. I haven't read on here or anywhere else, someone having the same problem twice which is reassuring.
I think the Jeep has some faults, mainly QC, however, ive yet to find anything else so well equiped, at the same price point. I keep telling my wife its a cross between a Merc and a Hyundai. (Built tough -Merc, lots of gadgets - Hyundai).
In all, id buy another, but I would research the dealer and shop around. Not really happy with our purchase experience, or the after sales service, but it hasn't turned me off the car yet.
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