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  #37  
Old 11-06-2013, 04:48 AM
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Re: disaster test drive might mean end of jeep aspirations

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Originally Posted by Benn0 View Post
Just on dealers, there are dealers and there are dealers. One of the dealers I went to didn't know what he was talking about, so I moved on to a different one. I'd suggest if that is an option for you it might be worth a 2nd go.

thanks BennO , i do get where you and some other people are coming from re the salesman, however, even at a couple of other Jeep places though (particularly a main place in adelaide) i received misinformation..i kinda just accept it as a given now i guess but once i get over this i may well give the GC a go at a new dealer
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Originally Posted by Benn0 View Post
The 4wd systems of the LD4 and the GC are similar, they both rely on electronics and TC to manage wheelspin, but I wouldn't say they are based on each other, they have been developed over time independently. In real world tests the disco seems to come out on top most of the time, but the GC still seems to make it everywhere the discos do. I'm pretty sure the 3.0 discos do have a dpf. I don't think dpfs are a problem, they should burn out fairly quickly. Nissan use to have a big problem with them, but I haven't heard any of those types of issues reported on the GC.


i might have mentioned before but i have heard of many problems with DPF in the GC, the gossip amongst all the booths at the 4WD show seemed to echo a problem with the DPF in the GC. then when my sales guy had a go at me for asking about them , i thought ..oh my god...

i think there is more to whether LR disco etc have DPF as well...as i asked and they said to me they did not! however they also said they are euro 5 compliant which , so far to me indicates they must have a dpf (but i may be misinformed)....as a side note the toyota dealer (and their service dept) made a big deal about their vehicles not having DPF'S
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Originally Posted by Benn0 View Post
The cruiser is a different beast, it is heavy and it feels it. My father inlaw has a 200, and it has had ongoing problems with dirty fuel filters. There are other issues floating around with them, the injector problems were a big one, but have apparently been fixed now.

It really depends on what you want to do with it, but for me the GC seems to be the best fit and best value.
with all that power and IFS i didnt find it heavy, not even a little bit but each to their own, i did hear about all kinds of issues with early models, but at the recent 4wd show i practically took a survey lol , freindly but anoying old bugger i must have seemed. and asked every person i could , mostly it appears the late models have no mechanical issues to speak of, the early models did have a few so far as i can tell and what was reported and what what i found on the net.


thank you Ben for your input, it all helps
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  #38  
Old 11-06-2013, 04:55 AM
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Re: disaster test drive might mean end of jeep aspirations

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Originally Posted by SJandL View Post
OutNabout - firstly let me apologise for my previous posts with regards to your posts.

I can only explain it in such a way, that I am very protective of the Jeep brand and am constantly combating the brands reputation within my own social circle. I hear it constantly from friends and family - why did you buy another Jeep? I'm so sick of hearing it.

You cannot explain to them that we were and still are very happy with our '07 JGC which has caused us no issues - unlike the last few days - have just spent in excess of $6000 on a Holden and a Honda Prelude which are also in the family.

I said to my husband just yesterday, (when the bills rocked in from the dealerships for those cars), isn't it ironic that the very vehicles that are supposedly on the most unreliable list are the very ones that have cost us almost nothing in the last 5 years.

Obviously, MY14 is still in warranty but has not needed to visit the workshop yet (booked in next week for her first 10,000km service) but more importantly, '07 rocks on and gives us zero issues.

Let me again apologise for our 'tangle' that we had on the weekend. I'm so protective of the Jeep that sometimes I forget myself.

I'm very sorry that we exchanged words.

Your experience that you had with that particular dealership is inexcusable. If I had had that experience, I would also be very wary of the Jeep.

I hope that you can give the vehicle another look, at a different dealership.

All the best with whatever you decide.

most kind of you to say so SJ and L, i really do appreciate it..its a lovely note you wrote ..i wish i could do as well. but my wordsmith failings have already been noted lol


sorry we inadvertently crossed words


all the best

sincerely
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  #39  
Old 11-06-2013, 04:56 AM
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Re: disaster test drive might mean end of jeep aspirations

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Originally Posted by mikerees View Post
As a current owner of a 2012 (2013 MY) Land Rover Discovery 4 HSE Luxury, and 2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland CRD I feel justified to make the following observations:

Jeep was $50k less than the Land Rover, and has more equipment / add ons than the LR
thanks for your considered reply mike, i appreciate it.

i think i could argue or challenge some items though, perhaps i have them wrong but i tried to check and doesn't appear that way to me so far

$50K difference seems way extravagant! in OZ a GC overland comes pretty much as it is (very few options to upgrade if not none!), extra $1000 for tow pack and some other little things e,g price is around $79k. the entry LR4 can be had for about the same price but HSE model is about $99K, tow pack is included, bit cheaper if you haggle, cant haggle much with jeep (none really they are so confident in their product) with the GC at the moment though
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Both ride on air suspension, and can't say one is particularly better than the other in this respect.

its interesting, one might be better than the other if it gets to the nitty gritty in certain circumstances , otherwise many people may not know if there is any difference until they come in for repairs in years to come.

as i mentioned earlier though there is after market emergency recovery kits available for LR, if the vehicle breaks down in the bush..nothing like that for jeep atm


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Originally Posted by mikerees View Post
Both have 20" alloy wheels, but the LR tyres are lower profile. Have had to get rims repaired twice on LR consequently.

not sure if we have our wires crossed here mike, but 20" wheels are an upgrade/extra for the LR4, put whatever tyres (profile) on them you want , LR comes standard with 19" wheels, not 20", the Jeep overland comes standard with 20" inch wheels....so its kinda opposite to what your saying <shrugs>>.

the LR4 can take after market 18" wheels, and many people opt for them. if you like the choices and benefits of those sizes , AT tyres sizes which many people seem to like are readily available...

obviously 18" are available for jeep as well


anyways, i struggle to find the comparison between your 50K extra for LR4 (i called the LR dealer today and couldn't with every single add on extra get nearly close to that)...basically a HSE LR4 will cost you about 20K extra but it has different features and gadgets, some of which a person might be able to justify, others not at all...mostly the features of a fully equipped HSE LR4 are incredible but dont appear to add up to 50K extra at all, not even close[/QUOTE]




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Originally Posted by mikerees View Post
Overall LR better screwed together, but price difference makes hard to justify.
many people seem to agree with your pov.
just sitting in them one gets the feel the LR is kinda cool and well built. purchase price will make difference for many people though, i get that ...just sitting in them i could live with the GC easily and assume a level of comfort whether advertised or not.

running costs over the next 5-10 interest me though
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Originally Posted by mikerees View Post
LR has a better on road presence, and more command driving position.

seems to have better vision in driving position, the GC looks better from outside (imo) but the small windows limit view around the vehicle
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Originally Posted by mikerees View Post
Ultimately I keep pinching the wife's Jeep to go to work in ( I have a 40 min freeway commute each way) so if I was choosing as you are I think I would save the money, go for the Jeep, and still be just as happy, if not happier with my purchase.

Dealer selection was paramount for the purchase of both of these vehicles, and I have travelled out of my way to get the level of service I expect, rather than a muppet like the one it seems you ended up with.

thanks for you insight Mike. happy to drive each day on freeway speaks volumes as does your good sense about a dealer.

thanks outNabout
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  #40  
Old 11-06-2013, 05:51 AM
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Re: disaster test drive might mean end of jeep aspirations

Re DPF. Our GC spends 90% of its time doing short 5-10 minute trips sometimes doing up to 2,000kms like this before a decent trip. No troubles with the DPF.
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  #41  
Old 11-06-2013, 07:29 AM
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Re: disaster test drive might mean end of jeep aspirations

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Re DPF. Our GC spends 90% of its time doing short 5-10 minute trips sometimes doing up to 2,000kms like this before a decent trip. No troubles with the DPF.
thanks Mendo, that addresses one of my concerns ...its not as though i wouldnt give it a run but it might not be that regular...a bunch of small city commutes and then a long trip


not sure if i mentioned earlier but i talked with one of those people at the 4wd shows we see there that advertise re-maping and chips for diesel engines. he said that they can remove the DPF and re-map for all the typical gains they advertise...obviously it wouldnt go down well with the warrantee though
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Old 11-06-2013, 08:03 AM
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Re: disaster test drive might mean end of jeep aspirations

Hi outNabout,

Going through each of your points in turn:

Price differential - LR Discovery 4 HSE Luxury was a very limited number of cars brought in to Australia (100 or 200 if my memory serves right) this was the highest spec LR that had even been produced and has every conceivable extra included. This spec is even higher than a Range Rover HSE Luxury that I considered. This Discovery was $130k on road here in Perth, and as they were limited there was no haggling on price. Also I traded a 12 month old Ford Territory Titanium that I seriously dissapointed with, and wanted desperately to get out of.

The Jeep is an Overland CRD with tow pack, weather shields, mats, mudguards, load space rubber mat and tint. This was $80 on road, and also had free first and second service with 12 months licence.

I don't know if I could have got better elsewhere in the country, but the Jeep was similar price in another dealer that I went to but walked away from as the sales lady had no clue of what she was selling. The Land Rover was so hard to get hold of it was a choice of 1 dealer, and the other dealer in Perth is a part of the same company so there's no point trying to get them to price haggle over the same stock.

Air Suspension - neither of our cars gets a hard off road workout so really I'm not experienced enough to comment. More for us was the comfort of ride on road, and the ease of access when lowered etc..

20" Alloys - these were included in the Luxury package and were about a $4k option on a standard car. Would I buy these again if I was getting another LR? No way! They are far more susceptible to damage than the ones on the Jeep, which I've found out the hard way - at least Alloy magic here in Perth has a regular customer now. Theres a host of posts on the smaller wheels on the Aulro forum, but again not really what we do with the car so doesn't apply to us.

The last point I forgot to mention where I believe the LR wins over every other vehicle I have seen is that the additional seats in the rear are absolutely awesome. I would have no fear in sitting in either of these for a 4 hr plus journey. The LC200 seats are a poor attempt in comparison, and the Jeep doesn't have any so can't be compared.

In conclusion we have the best of both worlds in each car, but overall now have 2 diesel cars giving a really comfortable ride, great driving characteristics with bags of power and torque, miserly fuel bills with great fuel driving range. As said previously I don't think you would be dissapointed with the Jeep, but all very dependent upon your needs and circumstances. We certainly had trepidation going with Jeep as there are plenty of naysayers with very little fact to base their comments on, but my wife's old Prado seems like a WW2 tank in comparison.

Just remember when you hear all of the comments made by rival sales guys / owners " Why let the truth get in the way of a good story?"

Regards

Michael
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  #43  
Old 11-06-2013, 05:15 PM
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Re: disaster test drive might mean end of jeep aspirations

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Originally Posted by bill_de View Post
And your shift key appears to be broken ... Junk the computer.

While thousands of Jeeps are running fine, sometimes an omen is an omen. Better luck with your second choice.


---
Here I thought he was a cockroach, possibly related to archy of Archy and Mehitabel fame.

I would tend to suggest that if this is the only Jeep dealer in the area and they are this totally clueless, perhaps a Schwinn bike or an old cow would be a better transportation option.
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Old 11-06-2013, 05:17 PM
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Re: disaster test drive might mean end of jeep aspirations

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Originally Posted by outNabout View Post
so i can only assume you are having a go at me, since there is no support or help from you...thanks mate, thats great, take the mickey, have a poke, all for you own entertainment.
Well, if you really want help, try another dealer.
And walk if they tell you that 20 inch wheels are the same as the Overland air suspension.
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Old 11-06-2013, 05:26 PM
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Re: disaster test drive might mean end of jeep aspirations

I drive an Overland on unsealed roads a lot, or on poor imitations thereof sometimes.

Plus: The Mercedes based air suspension allows me to move at speeds that would have bounced my solid axled ZJ completely off the road.

Minus: Not sure whether the '14 WK2 or the 95 ZJ is the bigger dust magnet.
I think the WK2's little spoiler at the top helps it win a close contest.
The WK2 seems a tad less dusty around the front and rear doors, but it competes nicely with the ZJ in picking up pounds of dust behind the rear liftgate.

Redrock dust seems particularly attracted to it, topped only by the alkali dust out in Nevada.
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  #46  
Old 11-06-2013, 07:18 PM
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Re: disaster test drive might mean end of jeep aspirations

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Originally Posted by iboughtajeep View Post
In all, id buy another, but I would research the dealer and shop around. Not really happy with our purchase experience, or the after sales service, but it hasn't turned me off the car yet.
Can I ask which dealer? I'm in Brisbane, the sales guy at Moorooka was a twit.
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Old 11-11-2013, 05:11 PM
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Can I ask which dealer? I'm in Brisbane, the sales guy at Moorooka was a twit.
Benn, I have to agree. I found the dealers on Brisbane southside very ordinary. As a consequence I bought in Lismore over the phone and had it delivered on a transporter to my door. Really looked after me on price too.
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Old 11-11-2013, 09:24 PM
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Re: disaster test drive might mean end of jeep aspirations

ok, good to know, I was going to try cricks at MtGravatt, and I'll probably go over to Albion today. I'm expecting to be disappointed on my trade price, but we'll see.
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