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  #697  
Old 07-24-2013, 02:02 AM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

Got my sand fix done the other day. The Mechanic's explanation seemed to make sense. He explained, if on bitumen when switching to 4WD, there is no problem. However, if switching to 4WD while on sand or switching the engine off and then on again while on sand, the computer gets confused by the irreglar traction and spits the dummy. The fix is also supposed to stop the continuous growling of the traction control when on sand.
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  #698  
Old 07-24-2013, 02:37 AM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

I am getting mine done next week, just in case I ever go on sand
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  #699  
Old 07-24-2013, 05:32 AM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

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Originally Posted by BobT View Post
Got my sand fix done the other day. The Mechanic's explanation seemed to make sense. He explained, if on bitumen when switching to 4WD, there is no problem. However, if switching to 4WD while on sand or switching the engine off and then on again while on sand, the computer gets confused by the irreglar traction and spits the dummy. The fix is also supposed to stop the continuous growling of the traction control when on sand.
Yeah and if you have the left blinker down and lights on high beam. You will be ok too.... BS from that guy bob. He don't know.... I always stop start on sand and go from high low on sand and no problem.
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  #700  
Old 07-24-2013, 04:13 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

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Originally Posted by BobT View Post
Got my sand fix done the other day. The Mechanic's explanation seemed to make sense. He explained, if on bitumen when switching to 4WD, there is no problem. However, if switching to 4WD while on sand or switching the engine off and then on again while on sand, the computer gets confused by the irreglar traction and spits the dummy. The fix is also supposed to stop the continuous growling of the traction control when on sand.
Hmmmm, not sure Bob - the Jeep is constant 4wd, the centre electronic diff splits the drive torque in Auto mode 48/52 as I understand it. The other modes provide a different torque split. I've read the problem occurs in both 4wd high and low (you can't "put" it in 4wd).
The problem certainly relates to irregular traction - to the electronic centre clutch overheating and having a rest, thus dropping 4wd. From what I've read the different software seems to address the confusing messages from the ABS module that caused the traction control to operate, which was adding additional load to the centre clutch pack.
Perhaps the mechanic couldn't find a way of explaining something along those lines.....
Anyway, whatever the root cause and explanation, it seems to have fixed the problem, I've not heard of anyone having a recurrence. You'll be able to plan your trip across the Anne Beadell Hwy with confidence!
Ours hasn't been done yet - it'll get it at the 40k which is getting close.
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  #701  
Old 07-24-2013, 04:42 PM
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Whether it's right or not, what Bob has said is the same story I got from my service centre. They said to prevent it before you get the fix don't turn the car off. Sounds like an official line told to the service centre's. Bad luck if you want to go fishing on the beach.

The mechanic come out with me to listen to a clunk. He explained it as the jeeps system switching between 4wd and 2wd automatically when detecting a change in traction needs and the sand software fix is also known to help with this issue.
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  #702  
Old 07-24-2013, 04:57 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

I can say from personal experience that I had the error occur within 5 minutes of driving off the bitumen onto the beach, and the vehicle had NOT been stopped and started.

I'm glad there is finally a long term fix to this issue, but this saga must go down in history as an unsolved mystery! Jeep have done and excellent job of concealing the actual details on this...
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  #703  
Old 07-24-2013, 05:38 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

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Originally Posted by Brett View Post
I can say from personal experience that I had the error occur within 5 minutes of driving off the bitumen onto the beach, and the vehicle had NOT been stopped and started.

I'm glad there is finally a long term fix to this issue, but this saga must go down in history as an unsolved mystery! Jeep have done and excellent job of concealing the actual details on this...
That's because there wasn't a more plausable reason in the 'Fault Lucky Dip' jar when they reached in to obtain a reason. I just hope the 'Remedy Lucky Dip' jar has a little more logic.
I think they also have another jar, called the 'Delivery By' jar, which they use to advise on the time a fix is due. They use that one for the Navigation fix, where each time you call, they reach in, and pull out a response, which may be "1 week" "1 Month" "It is coming" "We haven't yet been told" or "Never Heard of it".
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  #704  
Old 07-24-2013, 06:24 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

For those that might be interested, this is the best explanation I have found as to how a full time 4wd system works, and certainy relevant to our WK2 model....
http://www.majormedia2.com/4WDSimpli.../basics3_1.swf
If you check out the full time 4wd section and get down to how the centre diff works, and particularly a "Torsen" centre differential (the Jeep uses a variant), then you will see just how that vital bit can get hot when worked a bit vigorously in a situation where traction is variable.
I think it has been a matter of Jeep getting the various bits of software required for the tech bits to play nicely together, in all sorts of situations.
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  #705  
Old 07-24-2013, 07:57 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

An excellent find John!

In my post above, when they say that without the sand fix, the computers gots confused when starting on sand, I think they are refering to the traction control's need to calibrate itself each time is starts. This would be necessary to adjust for tyre variation due to wear or different tyre types or sizes. Otherwise the system would detect a differential in wheel speeds and try to compensate with traction control. On slippery surfaces it would be impossible to calibrate. The system would not know what was going on until it had some time on a relatively hard surface like bitumen or even hard wet sand, to settle down and calibrate. I don't know how long it takes to calibrate but we know that with some systems such as the TPMS in can take quite a few kms. Anyway, the explanation sounds feasible to me, not that it matters anymore.

The other thing I find strange is that it is reported that when the sand failure occurs, the system gets stuck in 2WD mode yet there is no way of deliberately putting the vehicle into 2WD. Perhaps this is some kind of limp home mode.
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  #706  
Old 07-24-2013, 08:53 PM
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Hi all,
Sorry if this question is covered elsewhere in this thread but how does the SRT go on the sand?
I have a new 14 SRT on the way, and am hoping to visit Fraser Island in the near future.
I know the 4wd system under the SRT is not as complex as the other JGC models when it comes to offroad capability
Has anyone here had experience with taking their SRT on the beach / sand?
How did it go, and would the current issues being reported in this thread affect the offroad capability at all?
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  #707  
Old 07-24-2013, 09:09 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobT View Post
An excellent find John!

In my post above, when they say that without the sand fix, the computers gots confused when starting on sand, I think they are refering to the traction control's need to calibrate itself each time is starts. This would be necessary to adjust for tyre variation due to wear or different tyre types or sizes. Otherwise the system would detect a differential in wheel speeds and try to compensate with traction control. On slippery surfaces it would be impossible to calibrate. The system would not know what was going on until it had some time on a relatively hard surface like bitumen or even hard wet sand, to settle down and calibrate. I don't know how long it takes to calibrate but we know that with some systems such as the TPMS in can take quite a few kms. Anyway, the explanation sounds feasible to me, not that it matters anymore.

The other thing I find strange is that it is reported that when the sand failure occurs, the system gets stuck in 2WD mode yet there is no way of deliberately putting the vehicle into 2WD. Perhaps this is some kind of limp home mode.
You're probably right regarding the calibration Bob, certainly I reckon it was a software issue.
Regarding the system dropping into 2wd - this is the result of the centre electronic diff clutch pack overheating and shutting down (disengaging?), no drive is transmitted to the front. No driver intervention is possible.
Once it cools down - eg parking or driving on a hard surface it comes back.
No consolation at all if you happen to be bogged and in 2wd with the tide coming in.
All academic now hopefully.....
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  #708  
Old 07-25-2013, 01:16 AM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

Hi all,

I have just had my first service wherein I specifically asked for TSB 21-003-13 to be installed. Service receipt simply says "Connected diagnostic tool to check for module updates".

Is there anyway I can tell if the sand fix has been installed??

I live next door to Fraser Island and it would be a shame to get bogged on the first trip in the new vehicle. As I usually go solo I have no sure way to guarantee a quick extraction if I do bog.

Thanks.
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