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  #781  
Old 10-31-2013, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John47 View Post
Yoda, you are not alone in having issues with Kerrys with your Jeep, check a few local Nissan owners as well.
This business has had a woeful reputation for years - from personal experience with a previous Patrol their technicians are hopeless, and careless.
I had a dialogue a few years ago with the service manager and dealer principal (at that time, and things haven't improved), over poor workmanship and attitude starting from the front desk and through to the workshop staff, but as I think this was a daily occurrence I had the impression they were immune. It was like water off a ducks back.
As you well know - there is no real alternative for you until you hit Adelaide or Cairns. Alice will be a lucky dip.
Becoming too well known to your dealer in a less than positive way may not improve your situation.
it'll certainly test out your skills in diplomacy.
Good luck
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I think that tis is a NT darwin thing
Many people seem to believe they are special in darwin and don't have to provide the correct service
I managed an officer there for some time and the staff in Darwin were the worst of the worst
I know that not all people in darwin come into that thinking but i am afraid there are a lot of them.
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  #782  
Old 10-31-2013, 06:37 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

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Originally Posted by Bloggs View Post
It would seem a Grand Cherokee, even with that nice diesel engine, is not something I should continue to consider. It had been at the top of my list until this conversation. I have the Simpson and other Aussie deserts in mind and want to drive the car myself, not let Jeep drive the thing for me

I appreciate your time to answer my query.

Regards
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Yep, it seems to me the GC isn't really intended to be that kind of 4wd. It may well make it, but I see it more as a trail capable soft roader. A good compromise between on road and off road and heavily reliant on electronics. If off road is the focus then I'd be looking at Toyota or a Patrol. Another one I considered is the Ford Everest, being based on the ranger there is probably a good after market range ready to go.
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  #783  
Old 10-31-2013, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloggs View Post
"Hi Bloggs There is no button to turn off the TC, there is a button that backs off the TC also depending which mode you are the TC works more or less. You could pull the fuse to disable TC but with all WK2's having open front diff's (TC used to manage wheel spin), and depending on model and option packs open rear diff's completely disabling TC may cause you more problems than it's worth Yoda" Thanks. After much sand work in some awesome deserts, usually driving Toyotas, Nissans and Land Rovers, I learned to not use TC in sand. The vehicles with TC had issues in soft sand whilst the rest of us drove the cars to a better result. I want the wheels to spin on occasion and TC removes one of the tools of sand driving - that wheelspin. When I can turn TC off and have diff locks I am happy to go anywhere. It would seem a Grand Cherokee, even with that nice diesel engine, is not something I should continue to consider. It had been at the top of my list until this conversation. I have the Simpson and other Aussie deserts in mind and want to drive the car myself, not let Jeep drive the thing for me I appreciate your time to answer my query. Regards Bloggs
Bloggs I think you are righting off a vehicle that is more than capable of sand driving, I have driven some very soft sand towing our camper trailer and the grand cherokee has performed very well and had no problems in fact it does better than our previous heavily modified navara (with front locker), you just have to adjust your driving stile as with any vehicle.
For more info on sand driving in a current grand cherokee have a look at the "sand driving training - Stockton beach" thread in the export section.
I would have no hesitation taking our GC + camper trailer on a Simpson trip or other desert trip! many people underestimate what these vehicles are capable of just because they don't have a Toyota or Nissan badge, sure there no monster rock hopper but the GC will go 99% of the places that 99% of people want and do it in comfort at a third less price than a Toyota, I would not right the Grand Cherokee off your list until you've spoken to some owners who have driven them on sand, and if some one who has not owned or driven one tells you their rubbish on sand walk away as they know sh?t
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  #784  
Old 10-31-2013, 09:46 PM
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Having driven my GC on sand a fair bit now I have no hesitation in its abilities. I replaced an old school 4x4 and driving on sand is much more relaxed - point it, keep your foot on the power and it looks after itself. If you want to stuff around with lockers, feathering throttles etc knock yourself out.

If you are not comfortable with the technology - fine, stay with an old Nisota. But I suspect it will get harder and harder to get a true mechanical set up in the future. Just look at the new pathfinder as a case in point, and the fact you cannot get a diesel in the new patrol anymore, and the VW amorok and, and.....

You are right, a GC is not a lifted land cruiser that costs an arm and leg and then more to modify. Which is exactly why I bought a GC.

And a photo down on the beach last weekend.
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  #785  
Old 10-31-2013, 11:45 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

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Originally Posted by GMWK2 View Post
Having driven my GC on sand a fair bit now I have no hesitation in its abilities. I replaced an old school 4x4 and driving on sand is much more relaxed - point it, keep your foot on the power and it looks after itself. If you want to stuff around with lockers, feathering throttles etc knock yourself out.

If you are not comfortable with the technology - fine, stay with an old Nisota. But I suspect it will get harder and harder to get a true mechanical set up in the future. Just look at the new pathfinder as a case in point, and the fact you cannot get a diesel in the new patrol anymore, and the VW amorok and, and.....

You are right, a GC is not a lifted land cruiser that costs an arm and leg and then more to modify. Which is exactly why I bought a GC.
I'm going from a 100 series cruiser to a GC because I want a better handling vehicle on the road (unibody), and I'm not planning on going way out bush for extended trips. I think the GC is fine for a week here or there, or longer trips close to populated areas, but my doubts would be being isolated and having a problem with the electronics, or needing to get parts and finding someone to fit them/fix it. These aren't so much of a problem in a cruiser, patrol or a popular twincab ute.

Of the SUV, unibody, monocoque cars I think the GC is one of the most capable off road (the LD4 might fall into that category), but if you want something that you can get parts and aftermarket bits easily, and aren't as exposed to electronic gremlins, then the cruisers/prado/patrol/navara/ranger/hilux options look better, IMO. I'd probably stick with the 100 series if that was what I wanted.

The pathfinders are targeting the kluger and other large 7 seat SUVs now, they have given up on competing with the prado.
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  #786  
Old 11-01-2013, 01:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benn0 View Post
I'm going from a 100 series cruiser to a GC because I want a better handling vehicle on the road (unibody), and I'm not planning on going way out bush for extended trips. I think the GC is fine for a week here or there, or longer trips close to populated areas, but my doubts would be being isolated and having a problem with the electronics, or needing to get parts and finding someone to fit them/fix it. These aren't so much of a problem in a cruiser, patrol or a popular twincab ute. Of the SUV, unibody, monocoque cars I think the GC is one of the most capable off road (the LD4 might fall into that category), but if you want something that you can get parts and aftermarket bits easily, and aren't as exposed to electronic gremlins, then the cruisers/prado/patrol/navara/ranger/hilux options look better, IMO. I'd probably stick with the 100 series if that was what I wanted. The pathfinders are targeting the kluger and other large 7 seat SUVs now, they have given up on competing with the prado.
Yep let's see the mechanic at Top Springs plug in the Toyota scan tool in to a new Prado or 200 (he might know how to fix a 75 ute but anything newer good luck), and as for parts yeh right they don't carry any, your going to have to freight them in just like I would for my GC .
I've had 0 problems with electronics in the 2 years I've owned the GC, the reality is any new 4x4 has the pretty much same electricary as the GC and the same potential for problems as the GC, so if you don't like electronic aides you had better buy a 15 year old 4x4.
Most problems that occur while traveling remote have to do with tyres, suspension, bad fuel or animal strike, the GC is no more or less likely to have these than any other 4x4 IMO
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  #787  
Old 11-01-2013, 05:32 AM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloggs View Post
"Hi Bloggs

Thanks. After much sand work in some awesome deserts, usually driving Toyotas, Nissans and Land Rovers, I learned to not use TC in sand. The vehicles with TC had issues in soft sand whilst the rest of us drove the cars to a better result. I want the wheels to spin on occasion and TC removes one of the tools of sand driving - that wheelspin. When I can turn TC off and have diff locks I am happy to go anywhere.

It would seem a Grand Cherokee, even with that nice diesel engine, is not something I should continue to consider. It had been at the top of my list until this conversation. I have the Simpson and other Aussie deserts in mind and want to drive the car myself, not let Jeep drive the thing for me

I appreciate your time to answer my query.

Regards
Bloggs
I think you should reconsider Bloggs.
The GC automatically disables the traction control (electronic stability control to be exact) when in sand mode. So you have nothing to worry about.

I have also been caught out with older vehicles not knowing that you have to disable the traction control, but in the GC happens automatically in sand mode (you will also see the ESC off indicator illuminated on the dash). The last thing you want is the ECU cutting power to the engine when the wheels start to spin in sand, and this certainly won't happen in the GC.

The portion of traction control that always remains active in the GC is the BLD (Brake Locking Differential). This only happens when a wheel on a given axle is spinning faster than the other wheel, and is the next best thing to a locking differential (Edit: and it only brakes the spinning wheel so that torque goes to the wheel with traction). Speaking of which the electronically locking rear ELSD in the GC (if you get Quadra Drive) will automatically lock fully as conditions require. I can say that the 4wd system in the Jeep is every bit as good (I think better) than a Land Cruiser or Nissan or Land Rover. Your main concern should be clearance and tyres. If you get quadra lift then you have plenty of clearance, alternatively a lift kit is cheap and effective.

Check out this video on the quadra drive in the Jeeps, it is of an older Jeep commander, but it was the same ELSD used in the GC (except now the electronics are quicker)

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Old 11-01-2013, 05:39 AM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

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Originally Posted by Benn0 View Post
Yep, it seems to me the GC isn't really intended to be that kind of 4wd. It may well make it, but I see it more as a trail capable soft roader. A good compromise between on road and off road and heavily reliant on electronics. If off road is the focus then I'd be looking at Toyota or a Patrol. Another one I considered is the Ford Everest, being based on the ranger there is probably a good after market range ready to go.
Once again I have to disagree guys. The Jeep has an awesome 4wd system - there is nothing soft about it. Why don't you do some research on Quadra Drive, you are kidding yourself if you think the 4wd system in a land cruiser or Prado is better.
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Old 11-01-2013, 05:57 AM
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The team on the sand driving training course were very pleased to look down on our instructor in his Patrol. He was stuck at the bottom of the big dune, while we had coasted up to the top. Don't tell us that the GC can't handle soft sand.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:38 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

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Originally Posted by Fatboy View Post
The team on the sand driving training course were very pleased to look down on our instructor in his Patrol. He was stuck at the bottom of the big dune, while we had coasted up to the top. Don't tell us that the GC can't handle soft sand.
True, and what about the guy in the Ford Ranger that couldn't get halfway up?


The benefits of independent suspension was mentioned. Yes, it handles beautifully, even better than some sedans, and even better in Sport Mode. It is a neutral handler with maybe just a touch of oversteer in gravel. However, the disadvantage is that when rock crawling, the lack of wheel travel is very evident. It is easy to get two wheels up in the air. Luckily the TC handles that easily. Cross axleing is a thing of the past. If rock crawling is your thing then go for a Wrangler.
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Old 11-01-2013, 04:42 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

I think the big offroading misconception, between the Jeep and the Land Cruiser comes down to the livery. Many think the Cruiser is the most capable 4WD on the road, but in fact it equals the Jeep. The big difference causing this misconception is that they are generally comparing a standard Jeep to a Cruiser with aftermarket suspension, lifted, and with huge offroad tyres. Compare a standard Cruiser to the Jeep, and a different result.
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Old 11-01-2013, 06:26 PM
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As Fatboy said, our instructor in his patrol, with all his experience, could not get to the top of the big dune at Stockton.. But our inexperienced GC drivers wizzed to the top. Then we sat and watched hilux, ranger etc all fail.

A GC makes you feel like a 4x4 god.
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