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  #805  
Old 11-04-2013, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Benn0 View Post
Ok, I class anything that is monocoque/unibody as a soft roader. Ladder chassis is a truck/4WD..... IMO.
Even though monocoque/unibody will go just as far offroad just as easily, eg our navara had a chassis, 3inch lift , bigger tires, bigger exhaust, DP Chip, front locker and yet my 2011 Laredo CRD with a 50mm lift and bigger tires will go further off road and do it more easily .
But according to you because the GC doesn't have a chassis it's a soft roader, think I'll take the soft roader every time, soft roaders don't have a transfer case and no low range
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  #806  
Old 11-04-2013, 07:10 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

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Originally Posted by yoda42 View Post
Even though monocoque/unibody will go just as far offroad just as easily, eg our navara had a chassis, 3inch lift , bigger tires, bigger exhaust, DP Chip, front locker and yet my 2011 Laredo CRD with a 50mm lift and bigger tires will go further off road and do it more easily .
But according to you because the GC doesn't have a chassis it's a soft roader, think I'll take the soft roader every time, soft roaders don't have a transfer case and no low range
Well I wouldn't think an Impreza is a 4wd, yet some models have low range. Most SUVs have a transfer case, they need some way to transfer drive to the rear wheels, most are viscous liquid types, as is the qudradrive system.

The fact that a particular unibody vehicle will go further than a traditional 4wd isn't the result of having low range gearing, it is a testimony to the advance in electronic driving aids. My mate has a navara, and he struggles too.

I guess some see the term soft roader as a derogatory description, I don't think it is. It just says it is an offroader that is more compliant on road than a truck style chassis vehicle. Of course that is my opinion, and I can't see how just having low range makes a vehicle a 4WD as opposed to a soft roader, as per the Impreza example.
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  #807  
Old 11-04-2013, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Benn0 View Post
Well I wouldn't think an Impreza is a 4wd, yet some models have low range. Most SUVs have a transfer case, they need some way to transfer drive to the rear wheels, most are viscous liquid types, as is the qudradrive system. The fact that a particular unibody vehicle will go further than a traditional 4wd isn't the result of having low range gearing, it is a testimony to the advance in electronic driving aids. My mate has a navara, and he struggles too. I guess some see the term soft roader as a derogatory description, I don't think it is. It just says it is an offroader that is more compliant on road than a truck style chassis vehicle. Of course that is my opinion, and I can't see how just having low range makes a vehicle a 4WD as opposed to a soft roader, as per the Impreza example.
Hi Benno, could you be a bit more specific about which year model of Impreza is 4wd and has low range, looking on Subaru AU's web site none of the current Impreza range has low range, and to the best of my knowledge no Impreza in Aus has ever had low range (my family has owned Subaru's since 1975) also note that Subaru say the Impreza is an AWD.
Cheers Yoda
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  #808  
Old 11-04-2013, 08:45 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

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Originally Posted by yoda42 View Post
Hi Benno, could you be a bit more specific about which year model of Impreza is 4wd and has low range, looking on Subaru AU's web site none of the current Impreza range has low range, and to the best of my knowledge no Impreza in Aus has ever had low range (my family has owned Subaru's since 1975) also note that Subaru say the Impreza is an AWD.
Cheers Yoda
The manual RV imprezzas had the low range option from 01-07, the forester manual also has it:

Buying used: Subaru Impreza (2000-2007) - motoring.com.au

We almost bought one of these at the time, but they couldn't get stock.

The 2014 LD4 also gives you the option of no low range. But then again the LD4 is a hybrid monocoque/ladder chassis design, so who knows what category it would fall into.

edit: Another one that slips between the cracks is the Suzuki Grand Vitara, it has low range, but is a monocoque platform.
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  #809  
Old 11-04-2013, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Benn0 View Post
The manual RV imprezzas had the low range option from 01-07, the forester manual also has it: Buying used: Subaru Impreza (2000-2007) - motoring.com.au We almost bought one of these at the time, but they couldn't get stock. The 2014 LD4 also gives you the option of no low range. But then again the LD4 is a hybrid monocoque/ladder chassis design, so who knows what category it would fall into. edit: Another one that slips between the cracks is the Suzuki Grand Vitara, it has low range, but is a monocoque platform.
Thanks for the info, I had not seen the dual range option in the Impreza (test drove some 2003 impreza's all manuals when my brother was looking at them), looks like dual range was only offered as an option on some hatch models, I would not agree that a vechicle has to have a chassis to be called a 4x4 as some of the most capable and popular 4x4's now available don't have a chassis, on the LD3/4 I will point out that it has won 4x4 of the year in every 4x4 mag in Aus for the last 4 years running, so if your going to not call that a 4x4, a just a soft roader because it doesn't have a chassis, then it just proves How bad chassis 4x4's are, and technically my 2011 grand is more of a 4x4 than the 100 series (as the jeep is constant 4x4 with low range) where the 100 series is only part time 4x4 with low range ;-)
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  #810  
Old 11-04-2013, 10:53 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

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Originally Posted by yoda42 View Post
Thanks for the info, I had not seen the dual range option in the Impreza (test drove some 2003 impreza's all manuals when my brother was looking at them), looks like dual range was only offered as an option on some hatch models, I would not agree that a vechicle has to have a chassis to be called a 4x4 as some of the most capable and popular 4x4's now available don't have a chassis, on the LD3/4 I will point out that it has won 4x4 of the year in every 4x4 mag in Aus for the last 4 years running, so if your going to not call that a 4x4, a just a soft roader because it doesn't have a chassis, then it just proves How bad chassis 4x4's are, and technically my 2011 grand is more of a 4x4 than the 100 series (as the jeep is constant 4x4 with low range) where the 100 series is only part time 4x4 with low range ;-)
I have constant 4wd in my 100 series. I can put into neutral if I want, but it has a center diff, so can run it in 4H on the road.

The LD4 is actually a ladder frame integrated with a unibody, but as you can see it is really more ladder frame than anything else:
Land Rover Discovery IV Design Defect | Motoring News | Honest John
Cars & Life | Cars Fashion Lifestyle Blog: Goodwood Festival of Speed: Land Rover Discovery 4

Apparently the next model is going fully monocoque.

I'd call a merc ML a soft roader, and since the GC is the same platform it is the same category. A different transfer case and electronics make it more capable, but they aren't fundamental to the vehicle's category. IMO
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:01 PM
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I would say if any is saying a vehicle is a soft roader just on the basis of being unibody has no idea of what they are talking about.

There are numerous hard core 4x4 with unibody and lots more coming on line

Definition for soft roader relates to transfer case does it have low range is the question.

But even that is now being challenged by some european vehicles

I have seen many examples where the Jeep Grand Cherokee in stock form only with good tyres fitted out 4 wheel drive a land-cruiser
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  #812  
Old 11-04-2013, 11:06 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

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Originally Posted by fwdjeep View Post
I would say if any is saying a vehicle is a soft roader just on the basis of being unibody has no idea of what they are talking about.

There are numerous hard core 4x4 with unibody and lots more coming on line

Definition for soft roader relates to transfer case does it have low range is the question.

But even that is now being challenged by some european vehicles

I have seen many examples where the Jeep Grand Cherokee in stock form only with good tyres fitted out 4 wheel drive a land-cruiser
Can you name the hard core 4x4s with unibody construction?

I don't see how the gearing defines the vehicle's category, it isn't fundamental to the vehicle, it can be changed relatively easily and as pointed out some vehicles offer both a low range and no low range.

I agree, I expect the GC to out do my landcruiser. Electronic driving aids are doing great things these days.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:23 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

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  #814  
Old 11-04-2013, 11:24 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

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Can you name the hard core 4x4s with unibody construction?
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:34 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

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Range Rover now, Pajero since 99.
Disco switches next year.
Hardcore?

The Pajero possibly....
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:43 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

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Hardcore?

The Pajero possibly....
It might be easier if you list what you constitute as a hardcore 4x4 then.
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