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  #817  
Old 11-04-2013, 11:46 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

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Originally Posted by SNUKE View Post
It might be easier if you list what you constitute as a hardcore 4x4 then.
Any 4wd with a ladder frame chassis

Unibody designs are intended to make a vehicle more car like for on road handling.
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  #818  
Old 11-04-2013, 11:56 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

There is not one single aspect of a ladder chassis that would make the vehicle that sits on top of it a "better" 4x4 than a vehicle with unibody.

The crucial aspects are height and 4wd system (i.e. Front, centre, and rear).

The GC does not have a viscous type LSD - for either the rear ELSD or the centre diff. Both are capable of locking completely and react much quicker than viscous type as it is activated electronically (using a very fast cpu to release clutch packs) - which is infact one of the best aspects of the GC - the very responsive cpu controlling these systems. Similarly for the response times of the BLD (brake locking differential) on the open front diff.

The centre diff is always locked in low range.
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  #819  
Old 11-05-2013, 12:07 AM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

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Originally Posted by Brett View Post
There is not one single aspect of a ladder chassis that would make the vehicle that sits on top of it a "better" 4x4 than a vehicle with unibody.

The crucial aspects are height and 4wd system (i.e. Front, centre, and rear).

The GC does not have a viscous type LSD - for either the rear ELSD or the centre diff. Both are capable of locking completely and react much quicker than viscous type as it is activated electronically (using a very fast cpu to release clutch packs) - which is infact one of the best aspects of the GC - the very responsive cpu controlling these systems. Similarly for the response times of the BLD (brake locking differential) on the open front diff.

The centre diff is always locked in low range.
No, I'd say the differences between the ladder chassis and the unibody design generally relate to onroad performance and weight. In the past some of the unibody designs were not as strong as the ladder frame designs and had to be reinforced. They were soft.

You are right on the center diff, the old select-trac was a viscous coupler, the current GC use a chain based transfer case.
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  #820  
Old 11-05-2013, 01:54 AM
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The XY falcon had a chassis but I wouldn't think that puts it in the 4x4 category
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  #821  
Old 11-05-2013, 02:12 AM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

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Originally Posted by yoda42 View Post
The XY falcon had a chassis but I wouldn't think that puts it in the 4x4 category
The XY 4WD used jeep running gear from the CJ5......

edit: I think the XY was a unibody?
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  #822  
Old 11-05-2013, 02:21 AM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

Yep, looks like it was a unibody, so under my definition it isn't a 4WD. It also had the 2 speed transfer case from the CJ5, so under the low range definition it is a 4WD.

edit: I found this article interesting:

Aussie Classic: XY Falcon 4x4 Ute | Truck Jungle

"Not that any of this mattered to the Army, because the military never got to the stage of even field-testing Ford’s prototype, Marsden revealed.
He recalled that during the vehicle’s development, the Army made it clear to Ford that even though the basic concept was right, it was never going to meet their extreme battlefield requirements without the proven strength and durability of a traditional body-on-frame construction."

Even the army thinks the unibody is a soft roader lol
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Old 11-05-2013, 04:54 AM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

Man, that is over 30 years ago!
Manufacturing techniques have come a little way since then, unibody construction can be very strong now, particularly the latest GC.
It's like the argument against electronics, where people seem to kid themselves that "mechanical is more reliable". Show me a vehicle manufactured in the last 20 years that doesn't rely on electronics for many of the engine components...
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Old 11-05-2013, 05:05 AM
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I understand this is just blokes shooting the breeze on the merits of various body styles, but to use an XY as an example to press your case in 2013, nope, you have lost me on that one.

I still don't accept that a well designed unibody cannot be as strong, or stronger than a welded ladder frame. Here is long bow to PROVE my point - F1 chassis are unibody.....
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Old 11-05-2013, 06:05 AM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

If you want a real sand driving machine, do it the way we did in the old days - none of this modern crap.

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  #826  
Old 11-05-2013, 06:53 AM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

Hey guys, 4x4, softroader, chassis, monocoque, transfer case, lockers these are just words. Words can be terribly divisive for little purpose. What matters is performance.
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  #827  
Old 11-05-2013, 04:59 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett View Post
Man, that is over 30 years ago!
Manufacturing techniques have come a little way since then, unibody construction can be very strong now, particularly the latest GC.
It's like the argument against electronics, where people seem to kid themselves that "mechanical is more reliable". Show me a vehicle manufactured in the last 20 years that doesn't rely on electronics for many of the engine components...
Well Yoda brought it up as an example of a 4WD on the basis it had a ladder chassis. I just pointed out that it didn't have a ladder chassis and did have low range.

The term soft roader has a history, it didn't appear today, history has coined the term. I agree that things have changed since the term originated. Landrover going unibody on the Disco is evidence of that.
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Old 11-05-2013, 05:00 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMWK2 View Post
I understand this is just blokes shooting the breeze on the merits of various body styles, but to use an XY as an example to press your case in 2013, nope, you have lost me on that one.

I still don't accept that a well designed unibody cannot be as strong, or stronger than a welded ladder frame. Here is long bow to PROVE my point - F1 chassis are unibody.....
No one is saying unibody isn't strong now, but in the past it wasn't. The softroader term isn't new. Yoda brought up the XY, not me.
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