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  #841  
Old 11-06-2013, 07:11 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

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  #842  
Old 11-06-2013, 07:37 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

Anyway, back on the topic of sand driving in the WK2, how do people drive them in very soft sand? I hear some comments about keeping the foot planted and let the electronics sort it out. I also notice that in select-terrain snow mode uses 2nd gear from standstill. I use this option in the cruiser on soft sand so I'm not putting too much torque through the wheels and digging a hole. But the sand mode doesn't seem to use that option, I guess it does some sort of torque management to help here.

Also do you find with the diesel you need to drop it to low range in very, very soft sand, or do you keep it in high?
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  #843  
Old 11-07-2013, 12:42 AM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

Love your work Snuke

Benn0 I haven't put mine through very soft sand yet, but I have done a few beach runs and apart from dropping the air, the first run I didn't use sand mode just drove straight along the beach (still getting used to the car) no problems and no real effort just point and steer, I did switch to sand later and played for awhile, still running 20's so have avoided the really soft stuff whilst I get used to this ride, so far I am impressed how easily it handles things
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  #844  
Old 11-07-2013, 12:52 AM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

Ok, I'm a bit more interested in experiences on really soft stuff, driving on firm sand is pretty straight forward, but on soft stuff I am careful with my torque delivery at take off from standing still, and some like to drop down to low range. Just wondering how different that kind of driving is in the GC. Maybe some of those who went on the stockton training run will have some thoughts....
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  #845  
Old 11-07-2013, 01:53 AM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett View Post
Bob the GC uses an NV245 centre diff which is capable of locking. It is always locked in low range! In high range, yes it is defaults to 52/48 torque distribution, but can vary that to apply up to 100% of torque to the required axle - i.e. locked.
The WKs have the NV245 but according to Jeep Grand Cherokee WK2 - Transfer cases WK2s have the MP2010, MP3010 and MP3023. To see how they function see http://www.pickupwiki.com/sites/defa...ansferCase.pdf .
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  #846  
Old 11-07-2013, 02:32 AM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobT View Post
The WKs have the NV245 but according to Jeep Grand Cherokee WK2 - Transfer cases WK2s have the MP2010, MP3010 and MP3023. To see how they function see http://www.pickupwiki.com/sites/defa...ansferCase.pdf .
Thanks Bob.
I guess I should say the MP3023 can lock and is always locked in low range...
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  #847  
Old 11-07-2013, 04:06 AM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

I've driven on Blacksmiths Beach, which was a lot softer than Stockton. I find that the best technique is to keep a steady throttle and when you feel a slight slowing in deeper sand just feed on a little (and i mean a little) more power. This seems to get the GC brain to sort out power delivery to the appropriate wheel(s). I have not needed to use low range.
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  #848  
Old 11-07-2013, 05:40 AM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

I'm not sure if the same applies to the CRD's, but with the hemi my biggest problem in the really soft sand is the crappy transmission programming. Often, you need the transmission to drop back a gear or two (it'll hang in 4th @ 20km/h at times!) and have to step on the gas really hard to make it happen quickly (before all momentum is lost - and in that case it is really easy to get bogged).
So I find it less stressful to downshift manually when needed.
It doesn't seem to be such an issue in low range as the transmission programming is quite good in that mode.

I've noticed that taking off in low range in really soft sand the vehicle does start in 1st but applying light throttle it changes up very quickly. Often from take off it feels like the wheels are about to spin but then this awesome feeling as everything seems to lock and gain traction within what feels like only half a wheel rotation.
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  #849  
Old 11-07-2013, 08:23 AM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

I agree with Brett. It's hard to explain but where you put it in second and bash through at high revs and a very uncomfortable and fast ride in a manual ute. The GC feels as though it swims through very soft and deep sand. You don't need to keep extremely high revs, you just need to keep a reasonable amount of momentum. Sometimes I feel it changes down when you take your foot off the gas when the speed picks up and where you need to keep the momentum you just tap the throttle again to get it to drop back. Low range is better for holding decent revs and momentum.... I use the word momentum because I don't exactly mean speed it just needs to be "swimming" and moving forward. Swimming doesn't mean wheel spin either it's just the driving sensation where you feel as though you are moving through the sand rather than bashing over the top of it.

As mentioned a couple of pages back I have driven through 3 or 4 Km's of very soft deep sand in auto terrain mode and it did it easily.
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  #850  
Old 11-07-2013, 05:56 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

ok, that doesn't sound too dissimilar to the cruiser, it doesn't have the TC aids, but once you get a bit of momentum it just floats along. When it hits a very soft patch and it starts to slow I give it a bit more throttle to maintain momentum, but this is where I can feel a wheel start to spin, so it is a balancing act. I'm expecting the GC is better in that situation, that you can give it a good squeeze and the TC will catch that wheel spin for you, and you don't have to back out of the throttle.

I've never had to use low range on sand, to me it seems to be something you need for petrol 4WDs, that don't have the low end torque to push through heavy stuff. Or for slow rock crawling/steep hills.
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Old 11-10-2013, 06:42 AM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett View Post
Thanks Bob.
I guess I should say the MP3023 can lock and is always locked in low range...
I think you are right, sort of. My mistake was assuming that the transfer case had a centre diff. In fact there is no differential at all, so nothing to lock. There is a wet clutch on the front shaft that gives a kind of differential action by applying electronically controlled slipping just enough to transmit the required torque to the front. The rear always gets full torque. When the clutch is fully disengaged, the car is in 2WD. When it is fully engaged, both shafts are as one giving the effect of a locked centre diff. There is a simple epicycles gear set on the rear shaft, driven by a chain off the gearbox sprocket. That seems to do nothing other than provide the two ratios. I have asked Magna Powertrain for clarification. I'll post anything I get of interest.

Anyway, getting back to my original point, given that in 4WD LO the transfer case acts as a locked centre diff would, then it makes no sense to talk of a 50/50 torque split as they do in the literature. This would occur only if the traction in the front was exactly the same as the rear. Perhaps I'm being pedantic but to me, talking of a 50/50 torque implies some kind of sophisticated torque control when in fact the front and rear shafts are effectively locked together as one.

This is probably getting off topic, sorry, although it has some relevance.
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  #852  
Old 11-10-2013, 07:44 PM
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Re: Grand Cherokee + sand = FAIL

So, does this mean you will always have drive to the rear wheels on the GC? The drive shaft to the rear axle is effectively locked in? On my LC100 I have a center diff that if left unlocked will send all torque to a single wheel if it spins. I have to engage the diff lock to have drive to the rear where the front breaks traction.

On the GC, even in auto mode, if the rears had 0 traction, the MP3023 clutch engages and effectively locks in the front drive shaft to turn at the same speed as the rear, so it is effectively always locked, in a low traction event..... is that right?
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