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  #565  
Old 01-18-2015, 03:14 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

So is this your first Limp mode? I'm talking about the Jeep.

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  #566  
Old 01-18-2015, 03:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNUKE View Post
So is this your first Limp mode? I'm talking about the Jeep.
Yep
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  #567  
Old 01-18-2015, 03:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutch801 View Post
I had mine service last week and they did the PCM update as part of the service.

Hutch- 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Blackhawk.
Any fix Jeep have to date isn't working by the looks of things. Read the 3rd and 2nd last comment.

https://m.facebook.com/jeepaustralia...32148416845088
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  #568  
Old 01-18-2015, 03:57 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iboughtajeep View Post
Has anyone tried a fast idle say 2000rpm for 15 min to see if it starts a regen?
Yep did nothing.
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  #569  
Old 01-18-2015, 09:28 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigskiddy View Post
Are we supposed to see a message when the regen is occurring? Mine never has.
Should the dealer be able to tell if any regens have occurred when they 'plug in their computer thingingy'.

Watching some Youtube vids on how DPF works, some have mentioned that due to the cleaner fuels and high temperature of a turbo diesel motor, a regen may not even occur or may only happen after a long amount of kms. Perhaps my constant highway driving and towing has taken a while to fill the filter.
I've probably watched a few of those same videos.
There's a very dry 25minute one with a old guy lecturing with presentation.
A couple of other from the UK design to help mechanics understand DPF were helpful.

This is what I got from them and some other reading:

If you are sitting idling or stop start traffic and doing short trips your exhaust will be too cool to burn any of the soot emission and it will accumulate in the DPF. 200-250C (?)


If you are driving along with the exhaust gases running hot enough to burn most of the soot in the emissions then the filter will stay pretty clear. This is called "passive regen" . No message here because the engine is just running normally, you just have the exhaust at the right temps. 350-400C

When the pressure sensors across the filter detect that the filter is becoming clogged past as certain value the PCM will decide it will have to burn it off to clear it. This is when the message you saw is displayed "Exhaust Filter .... Drive highway speeds" this is what they call an "Active Regen".
The EGR valve closes to 0%. - don't want any non combustibles cooling the chamber.
The fuel injectors sequence changes & injects a spray of fuel in the exhaust stroke, this fuel ignites in the exhaust system and raises the temperature dramatically. 700 C(?) (fuel consumption goes up too of course)
It also increase the turbo boost to compensate for power loss when doing it.

The drive at highway speeds thing is just so that you get cooling air flowing under the car because the exhaust is really hot.
Normally the differential pressure in the DPF should go down as it burn off the soot into ash and ejects it. I don't know if Jeep do the regen to the pressure diff or just on a max timeout?

If the "active regen" fails to clear the DPF as measured at the pressure differential. Then it goes into limp mode.


Something appears to be terribly wrong here in the software if you only get a few seconds from the "active regen" trigger to the "limp mode".


Is the trigger for the regen set at say... DP= 81%, and then when it starts it immediately monitors the DP for any increase at all (which might happen whilst cooking all that soot) and then throw limp mode?


The OBD thingingy would probably give the the codes raised in the PCM if they can see the history.
I don't know enough about OBD if the codes delete or clear themselves from the record.

OBDII has a standard set of codes. (hexidecimal). Whether all these codes are use i dont know.

The ones from P2452 to P246D are for the exhaust, DPF system & sensors.
Depends on how many pressur sensors there are and how many EGT sensors.

P2452-2456 is for the pressure diff sensor A
P2457 - is the EGR cooler
P2458 - is the regen duration - (too long?)
P2459 - regen frequency - (too frequent?)
P245A-P245D EGR bypass
P245E-P2462 pressure diff sensor B
P2463 - DPF soot accumulation
P2464 -P2465 pressure diff sensor
P2466-246A exhaust gas temp sensor faults
P246B - Vehicle Conditions Incorrect for Diesel Particulate Filter Regeneration
P246C - Diesel Particulate Filter Restriction Forced Limited Power
P246D - pressure diff A/B correlation error
P246E onward - various Exh gas temp probe faults.

example P2463 | CAR OBD CODES


I'm thinking of buying an OBD dongle to monitor exhaust temps.
I dont think it can read the DPF %full as that is just a calculated value and there's no PID for that.
Pressure difference readings maybe? They would vary with gas flow though blocking so could only be compared checking the pressure at the same revs like at idle at different times.



Quote:
Originally Posted by iboughtajeep View Post
Has anyone tried a fast idle say 2000rpm for 15 min to see if it starts a regen?
It would not trigger it but once the car tells you its doing an active regen and to drive at highway speed, you could in theory pull over and run the car at elevated revs for that time (15min?) and keeping the exhaust flowing. The only thing is the exhaust will be roasting hot and there might be some visible ash coming out of the pipes. ( best to keep moving i think).



I have not had a DPF message (yet). When i do I think i'll panic and crap my pants
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  #570  
Old 01-18-2015, 10:23 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Interestingly comprehensive list of codes Steve... thanks. I might bang some into Torque and see how many are active.

Cheers,
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  #571  
Old 01-18-2015, 04:47 PM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barboots View Post
Interestingly comprehensive list of codes Steve... thanks. I might bang some into Torque and see how many are active.

Cheers,
Steve
That's only a handful of the fault codes. There's a lot more faults than that, and so much more live data to go with it.

When the last fault came up (when it went into limp mode I guess), the system takes a snapshot of every parameter in the PCM and saves it.

The human person at the service centre, will probably ignore all that data and just set it to burn off in it's forced regen sequence.

If there is a sensor that failed (like the differential pressure) that should be pretty obvious in the scan, and it should stay on i guess.
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  #572  
Old 01-18-2015, 06:05 PM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1307 View Post
That's only a handful of the fault codes. There's a lot more faults than that, and so much more live data to go with it.

.
Jeep have only implemented a very small subset of the ODBII codes. None of the DPF related ones are available to Torque ( or any of the apps I have tried.)

The only way to see what is happening is to get your dealer to do a report from Witech. It can show the soot % and the number of regens done since the last reset. I have been getting this with every service.
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  #573  
Old 01-18-2015, 07:47 PM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigskiddy View Post
Any fix Jeep have to date isn't working by the looks of things. Read the 3rd and 2nd last comment.

https://m.facebook.com/jeepaustralia...32148416845088
That comment on facebook doesn't look very clear. He says they put a new system in (a new filter?). The current 'fix' from Jeep is this software update:
http://www.wk2jeeps.com/tsb/tsb_wk2_1801914a.pdf
Apparently the issue is that the ecu isn't reading the filter sensor levels correctly, this fix is supposed to change that. Does it work? Suck it and see I guess. If you've had a failure then I'd be asking for this update to be applied.

edit: Oh, if you look at the previous comments, there was one on Jan 8, his problem was a kinked hose from the sensor. I have heard of that causing this problem before.
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  #574  
Old 01-18-2015, 07:50 PM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1307 View Post
When the pressure sensors across the filter detect that the filter is becoming clogged past as certain value the PCM will decide it will have to burn it off to clear it. This is when the message you saw is displayed "Exhaust Filter .... Drive highway speeds" this is what they call an "Active Regen".
The EGR valve closes to 0%. - don't want any non combustibles cooling the chamber.
The fuel injectors sequence changes & injects a spray of fuel in the exhaust stroke, this fuel ignites in the exhaust system and raises the temperature dramatically. 700 C(?) (fuel consumption goes up too of course)
It also increase the turbo boost to compensate for power loss when doing it.

The drive at highway speeds thing is just so that you get cooling air flowing under the car because the exhaust is really hot.
Normally the differential pressure in the DPF should go down as it burn off the soot into ash and ejects it. I don't know if Jeep do the regen to the pressure diff or just on a max timeout?

If the "active regen" fails to clear the DPF as measured at the pressure differential. Then it goes into limp mode.


Something appears to be terribly wrong here in the software if you only get a few seconds from the "active regen" trigger to the "limp mode".


Is the trigger for the regen set at say... DP= 81%, and then when it starts it immediately monitors the DP for any increase at all (which might happen whilst cooking all that soot) and then throw limp mode?
A really good explanation, I didn't realise it also boost turbo pressure.
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  #575  
Old 01-18-2015, 07:55 PM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigskiddy View Post
Are we supposed to see a message when the regen is occurring? Mine never has.
You should see something like this when the car is actively regenerating the filter. It will count down to 40% (from memory). I haven't seen one yet, but that is the story others have told
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benn0 View Post
Like this:

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  #576  
Old 01-18-2015, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benn0 View Post

You should see something like this when the car is actively regenerating the filter. It will count down to 40% (from memory). I haven't seen one yet, but that is the story others have told
Dealers explanation was that no message is seen if you are doing the required speed for the vehicle then ....screw it, I'm not gonna bother posting their crap.

Actually here's part of it for a laugh, apparently diesel has changed recently, which is causing all the problems...
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