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  #697  
Old 02-01-2015, 12:56 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

[QUOTE Let's hope the December software upgrade fixes it.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure if they did the upgrade but i will be checking with dealer tomorrow.

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  #698  
Old 02-01-2015, 03:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barboots View Post

Disconnecting the battery will have nil effect on the DPF system.

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I think you mean "should have nil effect". With these things, it could be anything. Our first limp mode was a few days after a service. Could have been as a result of anything they did. Possibly allowing it to idle for long periods....
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Old 02-01-2015, 04:58 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Well two different service centres have told me that I could try disconnecting the battery and leaving it off for sometime and then reconnect. This could reset the MIL and throttle, they said I could try it but I haven't as yet. Sorta like a cold boot of a computer. Don't know if the error codes would clear though. So I don't think it should trigger a DPF fault. Last year, the battery went on me, so it had to be changed and after the new one was refitted, the MIL light came on but went off after a bit of driving. Perhaps Steve could add some light to this.

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  #700  
Old 02-01-2015, 06:27 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

I saw this discussion on an entirely different vehicle and its EGR system. It comes from the Ford Focus site.

In fact, the speed of particulate filter ash clogging depends on many factors such as the quality of the fuel and oil, good condition of fuel system components, as well as the nature of vehicle operation. Long high speed trips extend filter life, but short slow ones significantly reduce it. Sometime the engine control module determines that the filter is clogged with ash. In this case, the fault indicator illuminates, and the PCM story fault code P242F - Clogging the diesel particle filter - the accumulation of ash. The car will be in the mode of LOS. In fact, the filter may still be particularly filled with soot, which is not burned out by repeated unsuccessful attempts of regeneration. Optimal for the regeneration is a continuous movement of the car at speeds of over 100km/h. If the car is regularly used for short trips at low speed, the exhaust gas temperature does not reach the optimum value and regeneration will be not completed.


We don't have any roads in this region where you can legally drive at over 100km/hr.

Highway speed limits in the US vary from 105km/hr to 129km/hr.
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  #701  
Old 02-01-2015, 06:01 PM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimQldAust View Post
We don't have any roads in this region where you can legally drive at over 100km/hr.

Highway speed limits in the US vary from 105km/hr to 129km/hr.
I wouldn't put too much faith in the relevance of that discussion to the Jeep. 100kph is just how fast the wheels are spinning, it doesn't determine engine and exhaust temps on its own. The only issue with speed is that it meets the software parameters set in the engine computer. It will have a minimal speed or RPM setting where it will allow a regen to occur. Owners in the US have seen regens occur at 40mph, and even in stop start traffic. Idling for more than 2 mins seems to stop the regen. (I think ExcursionDiesel found this with his ODBII scanner).

The more relevant statement is about short trips, if you only ever drive for 5 mins at a time, then yes the engine and exhaust temps will not get high enough to allow a regen to occur. Drive for 20 mins (ideally on a highway so revs are constantly up) and the conditions should be there.

This is all how the regen SHOULD work, what seems to be happening in the case of many Oz cars is that the computer is deciding the conditions are not correct for a regen to occur, likely because its misreading a sensor, which is the latest story with the December patch.
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  #702  
Old 02-02-2015, 12:11 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benn0 View Post
I wouldn't put too much faith in the relevance of that discussion to the Jeep. 100kph is just how fast the wheels are spinning, it doesn't determine engine and exhaust temps on its own. The only issue with speed is that it meets the software parameters set in the engine computer. It will have a minimal speed or RPM setting where it will allow a regen to occur. Owners in the US have seen regens occur at 40mph, and even in stop start traffic. Idling for more than 2 mins seems to stop the regen. (I think ExcursionDiesel found this with his ODBII scanner).

The more relevant statement is about short trips, if you only ever drive for 5 mins at a time, then yes the engine and exhaust temps will not get high enough to allow a regen to occur. Drive for 20 mins (ideally on a highway so revs are constantly up) and the conditions should be there.

This is all how the regen SHOULD work, what seems to be happening in the case of many Oz cars is that the computer is deciding the conditions are not correct for a regen to occur, likely because its misreading a sensor, which is the latest story with the December patch.

That makes sense, even at 100kph in 8th on the highway the exhaust temps are still pretty low (approx 250 C) and when going downhill with no fuel injected can they drop below 150 which is colder than if you were idling in traffic (approx 190 C).
A long uphill run or a heavy tow will keep the temps up (350-450 C)


One other thing I read from "ExcursionDiesel" about the regen program is that the regen can triggered by the ECU to clear the DPF under certain conditions and not have any message on the EVIC.
Most people would prefer it this way, where the car does its thing without you even noticing.



It is only when the DPF reaches 80% full and then regen is triggered it gives the EVIC message which basically is telling you "Hey buddy, because you've been driving like a pussy I'm having to do this right now in the traffic, so you'd better keep driving and this is your last chance. If this one fails then it's limp mode for you so you don't destroy the DPF."

I wonder what the operating conditions are needed to trigger a regen, without getting the message. This must be why all the salesman/service guys say to take it for a run on the highway.

I am monitoring a value which is in a standard set of OBD parameters as %DPF full. It's slowly going up everytime I drive the car.
Last week it was 16% and now its gone up to 36%

On a short trip even <10km from a cold start it might go up by 1%.

At luchtime I decided to go for a 50k loop of driving "inefficiently" to see if I could get the car to regen. DPF was 34.5% at the start.
Anyway, sport mode, paddle shift, uphill, downhill, giving it a bootfull, but not speeding (it's mostly 80zone apart from a short 100km/h section) I found it very difficult to get the CAT temp any higher than 380C for more than 10seconds. Going down a steep hill it got under 120C.

Anyway, no regen. with a 50km loop and the DPF% went up 1.5%.

Maybe having it only 30% full is not enough to set it off, or maybe I just couldn't get it hot enough for long enough.
(It's like trying to please a woman )

I have had one regen one the previous weekend on the highway when the exhausts temps went very high (>600 C) for several minutes and my %DPF dropped down to 6% when it had been over 55% during the preceding week.

This is the driving loop with CAT temps on it.
Red= cool <200 and Blue = hotter temps >350 which were hard to maintain.


OT: The Jeep is fun to drive but on that road it was nowhere near as much fun as the turbo Subaru I had or the MGB with a V8 it that I owned 20years ago
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  #703  
Old 02-02-2015, 12:40 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1307 View Post
I have had one regen one the previous weekend on the highway when the exhausts temps went very high (>600 C) for several minutes and my %DPF dropped down to 6% when it had been over 55% during the preceding week.
You are collecting some good info there.... maybe 50% is the magic number. I'd love to set up this monitoring on my car, just haven't got the spare time to mess around with it.
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  #704  
Old 02-02-2015, 12:53 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Just out of curiosity, is anyone aware of an FY15 WK2 throwing a DFP issue?

Trying to gain as much information as possible so I know what I need to do if it does happen.

Took delivery last Thursday by the way, loving the car.
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  #705  
Old 02-02-2015, 02:58 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1307 View Post
Last week it was 16% and now its gone up to 36%
Mine is over 60% at the moment. I am logging my trips now so will report back once I see a regen occurring.

I am positive mine does a regen each time I see my instant consumption go up, which is normally every couple of week.

My instant consumption goes up from 6L to 8-9L at 100km/h and the last couple of times I noticed it lasts for about 15-20kms driving at 100km/h and than goes back to normal.
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  #706  
Old 02-02-2015, 05:19 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Xtr how r u tracking this?


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  #707  
Old 02-02-2015, 05:29 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benn0 View Post
You are collecting some good info there.... maybe 50% is the magic number. I'd love to set up this monitoring on my car, just haven't got the spare time to mess around with it.
This number is A calculated value for %DPF , but whether it is THE calculated value that the ECU works on we'll see.

One would assume that it would have to be up to a certain %full level before the ECU would think it worthwhile to use fuel to heat the exh and clear it. (60% ?)


Being just a calculated value, it seems to be steady for a few minutes and then updates suddenly (possibly some sort of moving average)
I've also today seen it just leap from 33% up to 47% and stay there for a minute or so and then drop down to around 34% where it was beforehand, which is probably because of the changing data for the calculated value.

One of the sensors it would be reading is the DPF differential pressure in (mbar) and that value will be reading all over the place rapidly changing with the changing gas flows in the exhaust system.
It would have to take into the pressure , engine speed intake air flow, and temperatures to calculate the gas flow and all of those vary so it's a moving variable rather than a steady value if it's not averaged over a time interval.


Iteresting all the different "advice" on how to drive with a DPF. This is my take on it:

- With short driving distances especially from a cold start DPF will fill up with soot more quickly. Temp from ambient to 200 C so is too cold and you are using increased fuel driving.

- Idling and sitting in traffic will also accumulate soot, as temp ~ 200 C. It will accumulate quite slowly as only about 1L/hr of fuel is injected, and that will not produce soot at a very high rate.

- On a longer drive where the temps go up to a slightly higher range 270-350C. A lot of the soot produced will burn off as it with react with NOx at this temperature range.

chemistry 2 C + 2 NO2 ----300C------> 2 CO2 + N2 (moderate reaction rate)

Soot may still increase on the overall trip but at nowhere near the rate of driving around with a cold engine and never getting the exhaust temps high enough.

- Driving hard / towing. If you can get the temps up higher the soot will burn of faster. But, driving harder and using fuel at a higher rate produces soot at a higher rate too.
I'm not entirely sure that with this type of driving would actually reduce the loading of the DPF in normal use. The reaction with occurs at only a moderate rate. Higher temps do speed it up.

- Exhaust temps 600 C ?. There is no way to get the temps up that high with driving even on a racetrack.
The soot burns very quickly at 600 C. And the only obvious way to do it is the active regen injecting (carefully measured) fuel to ignite in the exhaust.
The EGR also stops the recirc because we need some free oxygen for the fastest burn.

chemistry C + O2 -----600 C-----> CO2 (rapid oxidation)
as the EGR is disabled there will probably be more NOx in the system too so the other reaction will also be occuring to help burn the soot.


The burn properly and quickly there would need to be a decent flow of gas (and O2) coming through the exhaust. I'm assuming Having the engine revs higher would be better than idling because the gas flow is more obviously.
I didn't know that idling for 2min disables the regen? That could be inconvenient.


I think VW's can regen at idle and I believe Toyota Coaster Bus (pain in the a$$) has to sit for 20minutes to do a clean at a higher revving idle.


If you've gotten down this far you must like reading, VW has a really good explanation on their ECU and their DPF system which generically is similar. I found this posted in the RAM1500 forum.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/517/820433_EA288.pdf
Lots of technical stuff in there - page 57 to 60 is where the DPF bit is so maybe just check those 4pgs




Quote:
Originally Posted by XtRmn8 View Post
Mine is over 60% at the moment. I am logging my trips now so will report back once I see a regen occurring.

I am positive mine does a regen each time I see my instant consumption go up, which is normally every couple of week.

My instant consumption goes up from 6L to 8-9L at 100km/h and the last couple of times I noticed it lasts for about 15-20kms driving at 100km/h and than goes back to normal.
Mine must have been over 60% when it regen'ed. I saw it at 55% a day or 2 before and then drove about 400km on the highway before it regen'd. The DPF% was 6% when I checked it when i got home.
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  #708  
Old 02-02-2015, 05:38 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

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Originally Posted by Hutch801 View Post
Xtr how r u tracking this?


Hutch- 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Blackhawk.

He's using the Torque Pro app. and a Bluetooth OBD dongle.
I am doing the same thing with ScanTool OBDLink app.

The "DPF% full" value is written in as a custom PID value.
We just have to select the correct parameter to look at and use a little bit of maths to display it correctly as a %.

See my post #678 a page or so back for the l-o-n-g explanation.
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