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  #721  
Old 02-05-2015, 01:13 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1307 View Post
DPF monitoring update

I've been driving on a lot of short trips recently, and the DPF was filling up quite rapidly. Oddly the %full I'm reading has been ocasionally stepping up and down by as much as 15% for little apparent reason.

It would be at 60% and then drop down to 45% and then some time later gradually come up to 60% again. Perhaps it's from the inherently hard to measure differential pressure sensor.
The overall trend is gradually filling with slow driving around with cold starts and in traffic. It has taken about 10days with many short trips (and one longer twisty 50km drive)

I have not done any driving on the highway in the last couple of days (since the 50k test on Monday) and finally it decided to to do a regen at just over 70% and just seconds before pulling into my driveway , how convenient

There was no message on the EVIC display. The loading did not reach the 80% value mentioned in the Diesel manual supplement (USA version)


Unfortunately, I couldn't turn around and go back out again, I just let it run and took a couple of screen shots, whilst unloading all the frozen food, meat etc.

The Regen sequence does abort after about 2-3 minutes of idling time.

Had I not been monitoring the temps I would not have had a clue the regen was happening at all.




1. Idling at traffic lights, several minutes before whilst 67% fuel 0.7 L/h

2. Idling in driveway after start of regen the CAT temp climbs 530 and the fuel rate is 2.1 L/h. The EGT sensor (near the turbo) is a little higher but the Coolant temp is unaffected.

3. Idling in driveway and temp is still high, the fuel injected seem to be controlled to keep the CAT temp 550 - 620 ish. Fuel hovered around 2.1-2.2 L/h.
Not really much of a smell but could hear the cooling fan going.

4. Regen aborted and the temps went back down to normal for idling condition and fuel flow back down. Coolant temp the same.
As you can see the %DPF loading is only burnt off a little bit.


Also, note that my "Regen indicator status" value does not work and stayed at "0" throughout. (as also observed by XtRmn8)


Now it looks like I'll have to go for a proper drive in the next couple of days to clear it out properly.

It had worked fully a couple of weeks ago, so I would expect it to do the same again.


I'm glad that the sequence appears to work as it is intended.
Gives me more confidence in the emissions systems now.
Having my 20014 GC go into limp mode twice in a short time I am eager to keep an eye ion what is happening - what monitor system are you using and where can I get one?

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  #722  
Old 02-05-2015, 02:15 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 57grumpie View Post
Having my 20014 GC go into limp mode twice in a short time I am eager to keep an eye ion what is happening - what monitor system are you using and where can I get one?
If you've experienced the DPF warning and going to Limp Mode then first get the ECU updated at the dealer/service with
Update: RRT 14-104 (TSB 18-019-14a) under warranty.
This updated mentions a fault with software: DTC P2463 which is the DPF full warning / limp mode.
http://www.wk2jeeps.com/tsb/tsb_wk2_1801914a.pdf
.
.
.
OBD monitoring:
.
I'm using a ScanTool OBLink MX Bluetooth adaptor with an Android smartphone
ScanTool.net LLC - Scan Tools, PC, iPhone, & Android based OBD-II (OBD2) Interfaces, OBD diagnostic software

It's not the cheapest. Actually, is one of the most expensive.
The MX version has a feature where it powers down after the interface is off, so i can just leave it in there.
(The OBD port on the car is always powered straight from the battery)

I purchased from the Aus agent they list on their website.
OBD-II Car Scan Tools | Australian Robotics

They're on ebay for similar $$$.

If you are planning to use an iPhone or iPad you would need the MX wifi version instead. The iphone's BT isnt compatible with the BT dongle (Apple's BT is crap, too slow apparently).
Note: Having the MX wifi version and switching your iphone/iPad to wireless network mode unfortunately might mean 3G/4G data the GPS functionality doesn't work for the mapping features in the apps.


There are plenty of other cheap alternatives in Ebay for only $10-15 or so but .......with possibly some compatiblilty or power/battery issues it would be annoying so i went for the expensive one.

The ScanTool OBDlink app for smartphone is what i've been using. It only works with this particular brand of adaptor. They also gave me a PC based program & license.

"Torque" is another good app for Android and iPhone, works with any adaptor. Paid version is about $5 and has lots of features. "XtRmn8" on the forum here I think uses Torque.

I've tried a few others "Dash-Command", "OBD-facile"(french) etc.



I've found that the Jeep only displays some of the standard OBDII PID's that the apps support. Jeep does not have all of the sensors connected to the ECU that we can read either.

OBD-II PIDs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The app I am using and also "Torque" app allow you to enter custom parameters to monitor and display as they may not be in the list that comes with the app. You just have to find the data to monitor and the work out the maths to display it correctly.

I've searched on the internet looking for ways to monitor the exhaust temps and DPF condition and managed to work out the reading which seem to give us a normalised DPF % loading value, which at least gives some warning of when it might regen (or not).

So far I have tested some of the other standard OBD values that the Jeep supports but there are several more which I'm attempting to reverse-engineer.
a PM sensor?(if there is one), Fuel pressure &temp. VGT control and EGR for example.
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  #723  
Old 02-05-2015, 08:51 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benn0 View Post
You are collecting some good info there.... maybe 50% is the magic number. I'd love to set up this monitoring on my car, just haven't got the spare time to mess around with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1307 View Post
This number is A calculated value for %DPF , but whether it is THE calculated value that the ECU works on we'll see.
One would assume that it would have to be up to a certain %full level before the ECU would think it worthwhile to use fuel to heat the exh and clear it. (60% ?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by XtRmn8 View Post
I had a regen occur on the way to work this morning.

My DPF was at when I left home 66% and as soon as I got onto the freeway I noticed my instant consumption was sitting at 9L with cruise set to 100km/h. The CAT Temp went up to ~650 deg. C and this lasted for about 15km until I hit traffic congestion and had to slow down to a crawl. Not long after the CAT Temp started to drop to the normal ~200 deg C and the DPF dropped down to 8% full. I think if I did not hit traffic the regen would have keep going till the DPF was completely empty.

Couple of issues with my logging is that the instant consumption PID that I am logging did not show the increase in instant consumption that I saw on the dash. Also the custom regen status PID that I am monitoring did not change value, but this could be me not configuring the PID correctly.
Using the DPF% full we are monitoring, it looks like 65% is the magic number.

Went for a drive on the highway this evening, reading 64.7%.
I drove about 35km in the wrong direction towards Wollongong 110km/h...... nothing.
After turning around and coming 3/4 of the way back it clicked up to 65.1% and then about a minute later started to do a regen.
CAT temp went up to stay over 500 C and i saw a maximum of 670 C at one point. I kept going but had to stop at some traffic lights a few times briefly but the regen kept going.
Driving moderately in 60km/h and 70km/h zones and not in on the highway it took about 15minutes and the DPF% full dropped to 8.2% as the temps went back to normal.

This is pretty consistent with what XtRmn8 saw the other day.


The displayed %DPF on my app stayed latched at 65.1% throughout the burn. It drop instantly to 8.2% when it finished. (ie it didn't gradually display decreasing level).

The "regen status indcator" i was trying out , PID: 8B "bit B0 and bit B1" doesn't seem to indicate regen active mode.

The AVG regen interval time and AVG distance indicators don't seem to register either, (PID: 8B D+E and F+G ) Still all Zeroes.

The ECU indicates it supports a PM sensor supposedly on PID: 8F but again no readings so there might not be one in our model.

The EGR control, PID: 69 is locked at a fixed value during the regen.
In normal driving the EGR reading varies on/off the accelerator.
I haven't de-coded the EGR reading to anything sensible yet.

If I get time i'll write out a list or spreadsheet of what ECU PID's work and what isn't supported on the JGC Diesel, just for information/reference.

Cheers

Steve
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  #724  
Old 02-05-2015, 04:54 PM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Cool, do you have the December software update applied? I wonder if they dropped the threshold for the regen in that update to try to give the system more window.
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  #725  
Old 02-05-2015, 07:00 PM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benn0 View Post
Cool, do you have the December software update applied? I wonder if they dropped the threshold for the regen in that update to try to give the system more window.
Yes, I had the update done in early January @3500km.

For those that don't know - It was a fix for the rattle/knock noise in the engine and a Cruise control glitch, but it also applied an update for the P2463-00 DTC Soot accumulation MIL (limp mode?)

Of the posters in this thread who have experienced DPF limp mode before:
gmc45
Leenet5658
burger
WarrenK
Bigskiddy
Crocko (-Sam)
JimQLDAu
..... all mentioned that they had the update done recently.


of the posters that hadn't reported any issue before there is:
Steve1307 (me) - updated

I don't know about any others have updated including
yourself - Benno
XtRmn8 - will update at 10,000km end Feb
Barboots (-Steve) -- not updated
Hutch801 - keeps filter clear by driving like Victor Bray at the traffic lights





Who knows what the software change might have been.
- altering setpoints for initial burn attempt
- changing the injection (in case it was not hot enough for some cases?)
- altering the setpoint for EVIC warning
- altering the setpoint for limp mode

who knows?. The software is undoubtedly pretty complex. The ECU in most cars in the last 10years is more complicated than the Apollo 11 rocket.

Even with the current software I could see how you could easily "fail" several attempts at regen if you were driving in normal/heavy traffic in urban areas with stopping at lights and not even realise the car is trying to clean the filter.

Aborting the regen after a couple of minutes idling reduces the load maybe 10-15% to allow you to live for another day.
It took me around 15-20min of normal driving around w/o stopping much to fully complete the cycle.


I don't have any concerns about the regen software now.
I think it will only crap itself if there is a sensor failure.

Time will tell.
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  #726  
Old 02-05-2015, 10:52 PM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

I have not had the December 2014 update applied. I'll ask for it at the 10k service which will happen end of this month.

Steve, my DPF% value behaved the same as yours. The value stayed at 66.88% during the regen and dropped to 8.23% not long after the regen stopped.

I have plotted some of the data from my last regen and you can see the CAT Temps drop not long after I hit traffic and stopped.

Value along bottom of table is seconds.
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File Type: jpg regen.jpg (232.5 KB, 13 views)
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  #727  
Old 02-05-2015, 11:11 PM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Love your work Steve. For the record, I have had no updates applied... I've been holding off letting the monkeys out of the cage.

If you could be bothered putting together a list of the required PIDs to monitor the required data, I'd be happy to start monitoring the DPF status. Note I do almost exclusively short CBD fringe driving aside from when I go away... so I should be pushing the boundaries of the original software handling DPF condition.

Sorry this is a rambling mess... I'm pretty out of it today.

Cheers
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Old 02-05-2015, 11:37 PM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Is there anyone out there not named Steve??

Cheers
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  #729  
Old 02-06-2015, 02:11 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by XtRmn8 View Post
I have not had the December 2014 update applied. I'll ask for it at the 10k service which will happen end of this month.

Steve, my DPF% value behaved the same as yours. The value stayed at 66.88% during the regen and dropped to 8.23% not long after the regen stopped.

I have plotted some of the data from my last regen and you can see the CAT Temps drop not long after I hit traffic and stopped.

Value along bottom of table is seconds.
Mine did pretty much exactly the same, except I was driving at 60 to max 70km/h and stops briefly at lights and it still worked but took about 15 minutes.
Doing 100km/h on the motorway looks like it only took 10-11 minutes for yours.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Barboots View Post
Love your work Steve. For the record, I have had no updates applied... I've been holding off letting the monkeys out of the cage.

If you could be bothered putting together a list of the required PIDs to monitor the required data, I'd be happy to start monitoring the DPF status. Note I do almost exclusively short CBD fringe driving aside from when I go away... so I should be pushing the boundaries of the original software handling DPF condition.

Sorry this is a rambling mess... I'm pretty out of it today.

Cheers
Steve (who probably has to be Barboots now)
There 2 things that give a good indication of whats happening in the DPF.

1) This calculated DPF% full figure, which slowly fills up every time you drive, and then drops after a regen.

2) The CAT temp. This goes right up to 550-650 C during the regen process.
In normal driving its typically in the range 200-400C.

There are some other sensors like the DPF differential pressure but its difficult to read (fluctuates). There's a regen status "bit" on the OBD list but Jeep doesn't appear to support it. I don't think there is a PM sensor in the exhaust, as there no data trying to read it.

With an APP like Torque you might be able to pick the CAT temp from a dropdown list and display it. might be called "CAT temp Bank1 Sensor1"

If it isnt there it has to be added in a a "custom PID"

eg in Torque
settings > manage available OBD2 PIDs > menu > + Add custom PID
OBD2 PID -- 01 3C (or mode: 01 PID: 3C )
name: CAT temp
min value: - 40
max value: 6513.5
scale factor: 1
unit type : C
Equation: ((A*256)+B)*0.1 - 40


the temperature sensor is scaled from -40C up to 6513.5 C and is coded to 2 bytes of data. "A" = 0-255 and "B" = 0-255. Combining the 2 with the equation gives it in deg C.

The % DPF full calculated value will have to be added a s a custom PID.

OBD2 PID : 01 8B (or Mode: 01 PID: 8B)
name : normalised % DPF loading
min : 0
max : 100
scale factor : 1
units : %
equation: C*100/255



It looks at 1 "byte" of data 01 8B "C" = 0-255 and just scales it to 0-100%.
Maybe the 100% value on this reading aligns with the EVIC 100% value? and maybe it doesn't, but anyway its a good general indicator, i think.

The other parameters i've written in up in some post last week to try out, didnt work when tested.


What OBD monitoring app do you have anyway?
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  #730  
Old 02-06-2015, 02:16 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

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Originally Posted by Qpr39 View Post
Is there anyone out there not named Steve??

Cheers
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Out of 30 people in our office/workshop we had 5 "Steve's" at one point a few years ago. Were down to only 3 now.

My surname is Allan, so I have to share my name with a (now dead) Amercian comedian, an Australian professional golfer and this pair of Marmots ...
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  #731  
Old 02-06-2015, 02:17 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Steve I have the full version of Torque, and have also installed the scanner plug-in. I grabbed a copy of OBD Facile too.

Cheers,
Barboots
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  #732  
Old 02-06-2015, 03:08 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

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Originally Posted by Barboots View Post
Steve I have the full version of Torque, and have also installed the scanner plug-in. I grabbed a copy of OBD Facile too.

Cheers,
Barboots
Ok great, the OBD-facile does have some of these extra parameters in its "Jeep" setting. They're still all "mode 01" PIDs so no access to the secret proprietary mode 22? ones.
Not all of them work and It crashes on me after a minute or so and I gave up and went searching the net for the coding.

The paid version of torque looks pretty handy with graphs etc, the free version... not so good.

I forgot you'd probably been following this thread from the beginning.
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