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  #973  
Old 03-15-2015, 08:13 PM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Thanks Steve1307 using Torque Pro app with your figures. Not had a DPF issue but what concerns me are the people having limp modes reported doing highway driving and dealers telling owners to take it for a RUN. On a recent regen cycle started out at 67%, up to 69% by highway and stayed there for trip (50km) with a Cat temp around 280c. Return trip up to 71% by highway, Cat same temp approx. Seemed to me that highway cycle had very little effect on DPF % increase or reduction at that temp until I came into 70km area and noticed the direct fuel usage jump, checked app and had the DPF at 71.8% and Cat >600c. Continued for approx. 15min DPF back to 8.2% Cat temp slowly came back. My query is that I have not seen the DPF% reduce with any form of driving other than when it does its own regen cycle. I see you have had interrupted regen cycles, does the DPF% reduce when you restart or does the indication remain until a completed regen cycle has happened?

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  #974  
Old 03-15-2015, 10:10 PM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnye View Post
If you don't have a diagnostic tool how do you know a regen of the DPF has happened?

My JGC only has 2400km and this issue concerns me. I still have my 15yr old Prado with 320,000km on it and it has only had normal service with no engine problems. Can the jeep measure up to this - time will tell.


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At 2400km yours will have "maybe a few" regens without you noticing.

There doesn't appear to be a way for us to easy find out any past regens. With the OBD monitoring I found the functions for average time and average distance between regens but in the JGC they are all zeros so no data.

We can tell when one is happening, with OBD monitoring the CAT temps.
If you have a senstive nose and drive with the window open you might be able to get a faint whiff of "burnt rubber" smell - even if you have not been doing any circle work.


A 15 y.o Prado with the "older" 120 KZ(?) engine is probably better and more reliable than the newer Prado with the "newer" (but still old)150 KD-FTV engine.
Lots of troubles with the injector seals on the 2006-current engine, related to the fuel we now have to run.

Your could also handle the old 500ppm Sulphur fuel. That stuff would kill a new JGC's emissions system pretty quickly.

Having said that , the JGC has double the power and 65% more torque than the 120 Prado when it was new and the JGC runs more efficiently a lot cleaner too.
A lot has changed in 15years and each new bit of technology unfortunately needs time to mature. One would hope that with the millions of testing km things like the DPF software would have been worked out properly a bit sooner.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuresystem View Post
Thanks Steve, interesting.
There is no doubt that it would not be easy to remove the DPF and "trick the system." However, much as I like having a clean exhaust, if the dramas continue there will be huge incentive for us to remove the filter with a software fix to get around it.

It's also interesting that 200 series LC's don't have one. I have noticed a small amount of soot coming from the odd one from time to time but on the whole, they seem to burn pretty clean.

Cheers
David
The LC200 (pretty much the same car since end 2007) is only Euro 4 emissions standard even in the 2015 model here
Ditto the Prado which is the same car since end of 2009 is Euro 4

The JGC is on the stricter Euro 5.

If you buy a LC200 in the UK it will satisfy Euro 5 and guess what? It has a DPF.



Toyota AU don't tend to adopt new technology that fast. Why bother when they have sales advantage anyway.
(or rather, "had" in the Prado's case, now even the Kluger is beating it.)

When Toyota eventually get around to Euro5 they'll get the DPF and it will work properly because it's been tested in other markets for 5 or 6 years already.



If you see an LC200 loaded up with a big 20ft+ van on the Bruce Highway, which is the grey nomad 'cruisers natural habitat, you'll likely see plenty of black stuff emitting from it's cloaca.
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  #975  
Old 03-15-2015, 11:07 PM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1307 View Post
If you see an LC200 loaded up with a big 20ft+ van on the Bruce Highway, which is the grey nomad 'cruisers natural habitat, you'll likely see plenty of black stuff emitting from it's cloaca.
Funny you should say that!
I was behind a 200 WITHOUT a van or boat, for five or 10 klms on the Bruce heading down to Bris on Saturday, and it was belching just as much smoke as I'd expect to see from a twenty something year old Hilux or Patrol, and for that matter, one that needed the injectors done.
I commented on it to my wife!
The number plate on it was the same age as my Jeep, "*** TTO", ie: about 11 months, though of course they could have been new plates.

I was really stunned to see how much soot it was blowing out the rear end!

Cya
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  #976  
Old 03-15-2015, 11:42 PM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

finally since having the update done, have i had a successful regeneration (had 2 dpf limps in the past).
was monitoring via torque and regenerated even in idle low speed traffic went from 67% to ~8%

finally one less thing to worry about when traveling
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Old 03-15-2015, 11:46 PM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Hi all, a bit off topic, but I was wondering if anyone had experienced or heard of any instances of random deployment of the adaptive headrests on the MY2014 JGC?

I had the RRT 14-104 software patch applied on 20.02, after which I have had two occurrences of the drivers side headrest randomly deploying on 22.02 and 27.02. On both occasions, the vehicle has been idle and not in any form of collision. Seems coincidental given that I've never had this issue prior to RRT 14-104 being applied (18 months of ownership)... To make matters worse, I've also had five failures of the DPF to date!

Have there been any confirmed reports DPF failure following the RRT 14-104 software patch being applied?
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Old 03-16-2015, 12:25 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert85 View Post
I had the RRT 14-104 software patch applied on 20.02, after which I have had two occurrences of the drivers side headrest randomly deploying on 22.02 and 27.02.

Have there been any confirmed reports DPF failure following the RRT 14-104 software patch being applied?
I can't imagine they are connected in any way, but who knows.....

I haven't heard of any failures post 14-104 update. One owner of facebook said he had heard of failures post update, but didn't give any details. A failure can still occur for other reasons such as a bad sensor or physical blockage in the filter that won't clear despite regens.
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  #979  
Old 03-16-2015, 01:00 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustlock View Post
Thanks Steve1307 using Torque Pro app with your figures. Not had a DPF issue but what concerns me are the people having limp modes reported doing highway driving and dealers telling owners to take it for a RUN. On a recent regen cycle started out at 67%, up to 69% by highway and stayed there for trip (50km) with a Cat temp around 280c. Return trip up to 71% by highway, Cat same temp approx. Seemed to me that highway cycle had very little effect on DPF % increase or reduction at that temp until I came into 70km area and noticed the direct fuel usage jump, checked app and had the DPF at 71.8% and Cat >600c. Continued for approx. 15min DPF back to 8.2% Cat temp slowly came back. My query is that I have not seen the DPF% reduce with any form of driving other than when it does its own regen cycle. I see you have had interrupted regen cycles, does the DPF% reduce when you restart or does the indication remain until a completed regen cycle has happened?

If a regen gets aborted when shutting down in the middle of a sequence then yes, on the next restart the DPF% is some lower figure, depending on how long it went for. A few minutes only might take it from 71% down to maybe 50%.
This sequence i have done several times due to my short commute, barely enough to fully warm up the car.


As for the rate of accumulation, i've seen it is similar to your description.

I have not seen it decrease (steadily reducing) whilst driving. I drove 600km all on the highway in one day and had a regen happen towards the end of it. That says to me that it was steadily accumulating all the time even on the highway. The CAT temp is still relatively cool cruising along in 8th @ 110kph.


Repeated short trips with cold start accumulates more rapidly. (CAT temp 200-250-300)

Longer commutes & highway still accumulates but slowly. (CAT temp 250-350)

Towing heavy loads - I will have to try this out soon (typical CAT temp ???) will the DPF decrease??

.
.
.

A few weeks ago I was sitting at about 65% and took a 55km drive up to the opposite end of Sydney, with some traffic but also some at 90kph. Same for the return journey and it only went to 67% after 110km of driving.
I thought right next day doing the same 55km + 55km it will do it. ? Nope. just up to 69%.
Next day drove and parked at the airport. Regen? Nope.
3days later drove from airport to office. Regen? Nope 71.6%.

That afternoon in the 7km trip home, It started just around the corner from my house got about 3minutes of burn so in the restart it was only down to 50%.

It seems that my magic number is 71.6%. If the car sees that number when starting up it does the regen as soon as it is warmed up. It takes about 10min to warm up, by which time in my short commute i am 500yards from my house.


Even with repeating this incident of aborting regens I still wouldn't get a DPF fail. It would just attempt and do a partial burn every few days instead of one proper one every couple of weeks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustlock View Post
........ dealers telling owners to take it for a RUN.
.... well "taking it for a run" doesn't hurt. Actually it helps as long as the DPF regen sequence is working properly in the first place.

Taking it for a run makes sure that the car gets fully warmed up and, then if its pretty full (> 70%) the regen burn sequence actually starts, then driving it for more than 15minutes will allow it to fully complete and clean the filter (down to 8%-ish).


Now... if the car is only a 50%... "taking it for a run" isn't really going do anything except to get you out on the roads in public in your shiny new Jeep where potential buyers are looking.

Of course if the software/sensor ISN'T working properly.... no amount of "taking it for a run" is going to help. It'll just mean you are further away from home when you have to call Jeep Assist for a tilt tray
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  #980  
Old 03-16-2015, 01:35 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

I went for a run to the gold coast and back yesterday, went from 39% to 49%, but included a fair bit of stuck in GC sunday traffic.

Next weekend I'm offroading, interesting to see if it will regen during that trip.....
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Old 03-16-2015, 01:37 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Thanks Steve1307, I have smelt the burning rubber smell twice since I've had it, both times after a spirited drive. So after a hiccup with the breaks, fixed after a software update, my 2015 Laredo is doing well.(touch wood). There will some long drives coming up so will see how the DPF issue goes after that.


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  #982  
Old 03-17-2015, 12:54 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Well today was interesting.

I've seen regens a few times before without anything plugged in, by noting higher than usual fuel usage, but it's a bit hit and miss. You have to be very observant to see it without the OBD app running.

Today though, I knew the DPF was getting up close to 65% thanks to "OBDFusion" and Steve's PID settings. So off we went while I watched with interest with my iPhone hooked up the the ELM WiFi.

This is the first time I've had the app running AND known my DPF was getting full enough for a Regen to occur.
Sitting in a 70k zone, just as the DPF hit 66%, I noticed the Cat temp rise rapidly from mid 200's to over 600 and a noticeable increase in fuel use, I would guess 2-3 litres/100 average increase. The road we were on was pretty solid traffic, with quite a few red traffic lights to contend with. However the temp stayed up close to 600 -even when at red lights (though I don't really know how quickly it updates.) As soon as I accelerated off, it would go over 650C. During the whole period, even in solid traffic and stationary at red lights, I never saw less than 585C.

Total time was about 14 minutes, and then JUST as the Cat Temp started to drop, the DPF dropped suddenly to 8%. As others have observed, it sat at 66% during the whole process, only dropping suddenly at the end.

Awesome! It's really good to know it's doing what it should, and whilst that occurs, I have no chance of a limp mode due to DPF full.
I was particularly pleased that it all worked in a 70 zone with fairly heavy traffic.

Thanks again Steve.
Love your work!

PS I've never seen any evidence of anything but a slow, steady increase in DPF% even at 115kph and even working hard towing the van uphill, so have no idea of what a "passive Regen" might be? Maybe you'd need to do 180kph.
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  #983  
Old 03-17-2015, 01:35 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuresystem View Post
PS I've never seen any evidence of anything but a slow, steady increase in DPF% even at 115kph and even working hard towing the van uphill, so have no idea of what a "passive Regen" might be? Maybe you'd need to do 180kph.
Passive regen is just normal heat in the exhaust system burning off 'some' soot, but probably not enough to reduce the level faster than what is being caught while driving. It will just reduce the rate at which it fills. You might notice this more so at higher revs and when the car is under load (particularly if the EGR valve closes).
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Old 03-17-2015, 02:00 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

It's a "particle"-ulary inappropriate application of terminology, and it proves that the bullshit we were fed early on was the highest grade stinky crap. The concept was probably gleaned from a paper on DPF technology in general, but unfortunately it doesn't apply in context. Mr Jeep tech told us you're conducting a "passive regeneration cycle" on the highway (at 105 of course), but in practice the system still accumulates particlulate? Really??? WTF is it regenerating dude?

Basically, the only regeneration anyone has sighted so far occurs during an active regeneration cycle. The rest is just varying degrees of accumulation.

Cheers,
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