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  #1045  
Old 04-18-2015, 10:21 PM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Vehicle returned with new PCM and 14-104 carried out. The engine moderate clatter had started to develop again during restarts when warming up but is now back to normal and it seems smoother on initial throttle movement than before. Looking good, so hopefully the excessive clatter/detonation does not return. HVAC still an issue but at least the dealership has been given authority to look into it further.

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  #1046  
Old 04-19-2015, 01:56 AM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

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Originally Posted by Twscoot View Post
A positive post that I know could be placed in the towing thread but I think given my past DPF issue at 6000km provides hope...
Just completed 4500km trip from Brisbane to Melbourne and return via the Snowy and Blue Mountains.
Car now at 25000km having only had the one DPF issue.
Latest software patches applied.
Towing 2675kg ATM tandem van.
14.9l/100km overall. (Lots of hills!).
Not one issue. All good. Towed superbly.
Confidence of the dreaded limp mode slowly being restored.


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Good news indeed.
I do however recommend monitoring things using the OBD Fusion app, and a suitable OBD wifi sender.
Mostly when driving longer trips, and ALWAYS when towing, I keep an eye on coolant and oil temp, DPF level and Cat temp, all up on the dash on my iPhone.
It gives a huge amount of extra confidence- I yesterday saw my third DPF Regen since I started using the app.
Three times out of three, it's begun just when I see about 65% on the DPF, and works perfectly even in traffic with a few red traffic lights thrown in.
And I still haven't had the software update done yet, maybe next week.
(The latest regen yesterday was on the highway at about 110kph, all done in under about ten minutes and straight back to about 8% indicated.)
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  #1047  
Old 04-19-2015, 07:17 PM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

My last regen occurred at ~72%, I was offroading up around Maleny and saw the dpf level climb from 64% up into the 70s, started to get worried that it wasn't going to regen on the slow winding roads up there, so headed across to the highway. As soon as I got up to 100kph the temps came up and after 10mins regened back to ~8%.
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  #1048  
Old 04-19-2015, 08:47 PM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benn0 View Post
My last regen occurred at ~72%, I was offroading up around Maleny and saw the dpf level climb from 64% up into the 70s, started to get worried that it wasn't going to regen on the slow winding roads up there, so headed across to the highway. As soon as I got up to 100kph the temps came up and after 10mins regened back to ~8%.
Thanks,
Shows the benefit of monitoring it! Good to know.

I wonder what would happen if you were off road, pulled over and just held 2,000 rpm or so for a little while? Would it start a regeneration? It would be interesting to try some time.

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  #1049  
Old 05-04-2015, 08:53 PM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

I have had one DPF limp mode at 30,000k that really shook my confidence in the JGC for remote travelling. i asked why it took two years and 30,000k to show up. Got no reasoned response from the dealer. They said it was due to too many short trips around town that did not allow sufficient heat to initiate a burn. i found this answer a little too convenient and not addressing a fundamental flaw in design.

I spoke with an experienced mechanic in whom I have confidence yesterday. This is what he said. All modern diesels are experiencing similar problems to various degrees.
The problem is related to the low quality of our Australian diesel. Our diesel has a very high sulphur content when compared to Europe. It is the sulphur that causes the build up of carbon in filter. He said that the incidence of short running compounds the problem by not providing the opportunity for sufficient heat build up or time to complete the burn in some cases.

That still leaves me wondering why Jeep have not developed a management upgrade to initiate to accommodate the different composition of Australian fuel given we are a major customer of the CRD Jeep.
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Old 05-04-2015, 09:08 PM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Hmmm, well they have released an update to fix the problem, and the problem didn't show itself as obviously in the MY11-13 models. The update apparently fixes an issue in the way the control module is reading filter capacity. We haven't had any reported DPF regen failures since the update has been released, which was mid december. Your car probably had this update applied at the last service:

RRT 14-104

From the monitoring that has been done so far, it seems there is a fairly small window for a regen to occur, generally when the filter is over 60% full the car will attempt to regen when at highway speeds (this seems to be ~80kph and higher). So it can be a little hit and miss getting the car on a highway for 15-20mins when the filter is above regen threshold.

However, it seems the car will go into regen once over 70% at slower speeds, but yes, the engine needs to be warmed up and then allowed to run for 15-20 mins to complete a regen. My car regened in stop start traffic once that I monitored with the OBD scanner, no problem.

Once the filter is 80% full the car is supposed to give you an alert on your dash and tell you to drive at highway speeds, but it seems that for many the car would go immediately into limp mode and not give you the chance. For others the alert would come up on the highway and fail to regen even though they were at highway speeds.

So given all of this history, and the apparent fix (cross fingers, knock on wood, spit, spit, spit) it seems the cause is electronics failing to read the sensors correctly and initiating a regen. Maybe bad fuel will cause the filter to fill quicker, but it should NOT prevent the car from initiating a regen.

Now there can be other causes to regen failures and dpf filter blockages, such as a sensor failure, bent tube that allows the sensor to measure air pressure differences in the filter, and in some cases the filter has failed all together and can't be cleared with a manual regen at the dealer. Those issues seem to be rarer than the electronics related failure that we've been seeing a lot of.....

edit: Why it has happened now after 30k, and not previously I don't know. A regen seems to occur once every ~800kms or once a tank load, so you would have had plenty of successful regens previously.
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  #1051  
Old 05-04-2015, 09:14 PM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nariracruisin' View Post
I spoke with an experienced mechanic in whom I have confidence yesterday. This is what he said. All modern diesels are experiencing similar problems to various degrees.
The problem is related to the low quality of our Australian diesel. Our diesel has a very high sulphur content when compared to Europe. It is the sulphur that causes the build up of carbon in filter.
If that is what he said, then he doesnít sound like much of an expert. Aus diesel is using the Euro V standard which came into implementation in 2009 with 10ppm for Sulphur. So we are the same as the EU. There are a few countries with the Eu that offer lower levels, but it is not the standard. He is correct in that it is a relatively common issue with modern diesels with DPFs. Pajeros had the issue for a while, then fixed. I know Mazda has been having a nightmare of a time with it, not sure if now fixed.
Our fuel is not the problem, it was a calculation issue in the software. Your city driving will not cause it as such, but it will cause the filter to fill up quicker. The filter regens have been working for you correctly up until this point.

There is a service bulleting available to fix this issue, it has been available since 18th Dec 2014 see here - http://www.wk2jeeps.com/tsb/tsb_wk2_1801914a.pdf

You paperwork from the dealer that fixed it should show this as being applied. It will have the job number RRT 14-104. Once this is done, it should be like the prior incident free 30,000km.
If you donít have paperwork showing this job is done, then call and find out why. This should have been explained as being done when you picked it up.
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  #1052  
Old 05-04-2015, 09:33 PM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

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Originally Posted by SNUKE View Post
If that is what he said, then he doesnít sound like much of an expert. Aus diesel is using the Euro V standard which came into implementation in 2009 with 10ppm for Sulphur. So we are the same as the EU. There are a few countries with the Eu that offer lower levels, but it is not the standard. He is correct in that it is a relatively common issue with modern diesels with DPFs. Pajeros had the issue for a while, then fixed. I know Mazda has been having a nightmare of a time with it, not sure if now fixed.
Our fuel is not the problem, it was a calculation issue in the software. Your city driving will not cause it as such, but it will cause the filter to fill up quicker. The filter regens have been working for you correctly up until this point.

There is a service bulleting available to fix this issue, it has been available since 18th Dec 2014 see here - http://www.wk2jeeps.com/tsb/tsb_wk2_1801914a.pdf

You paperwork from the dealer that fixed it should show this as being applied. It will have the job number RRT 14-104. Once this is done, it should be like the prior incident free 30,000km.
If you donít have paperwork showing this job is done, then call and find out why. This should have been explained as being done when you picked it up.
Thanks Snuke, your response is much appreciated and gives me some hope. However I am frustrated that the dealer is not aware of the TSB RRT 14-104. They ensured me that any applicable TSB are automatically downloaded when the car is coupled up to the computer. I trust that they did check for updates whilst the car was connected for some time during my 40k service yesterday, but my paper work does not show any details as you mentioned.
I cannot understand why dealers are not more pro active seeking every avenue to solve such a serious problem, particularly when as you you have pointed out Jeep have provided the required update.
Once more, many thanks Snuke, I enjoy your posts.
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Old 05-04-2015, 09:37 PM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

You have a MY14 right?

Print it out and take it to them:
http://www.wk2jeeps.com/tsb/tsb_wk2_1801914a.pdf

Some dealers have no idea, unfortunately. And that isn't limited to Jeep.
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Old 05-04-2015, 10:11 PM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

He does have a MY14 - 2014 Grand Cherokee information - Australia

This wouldn't come up with the VIN, it is related to the problem itself, not the VIN which is recall and service related.
That said, as it is such an issue, it bloody well should be attached to VINs of all builds they know are affected. Same a lot of time, expense and hassles to have it down for all instead of the towing required.
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Old 05-04-2015, 10:59 PM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SNUKE View Post
If that is what he said, then he doesnít sound like much of an expert. Aus diesel is using the Euro V standard which came into implementation in 2009 with 10ppm for Sulphur. So we are the same as the EU. There are a few countries with the Eu that offer lower levels, but it is not the standard. He is correct in that it is a relatively common issue with modern diesels with DPFs. Pajeros had the issue for a while, then fixed. I know Mazda has been having a nightmare of a time with it, not sure if now fixed.
Our fuel is not the problem, it was a calculation issue in the software. Your city driving will not cause it as such, but it will cause the filter to fill up quicker. The filter regens have been working for you correctly up until this point.

There is a service bulleting available to fix this issue, it has been available since 18th Dec 2014 see here - http://www.wk2jeeps.com/tsb/tsb_wk2_1801914a.pdf



You paperwork from the dealer that fixed it should show this as being applied. It will have the job number RRT 14-104. Once this is done, it should be like the prior incident free 30,000km.
If you donít have paperwork showing this job is done, then call and find out why. This should have been explained as being done when you picked it up.
What Snuke said!

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with our Australian spec diesel, unless you've unfortunately picked some up from a crook, who dilutes it with other garbage like heating oil- which sadly does still occasionally happen. It was bad enough on old style diesels, could be a nightmare on modern common rail engines, though I was speaking to a guy not to long ago who had exactly that happen!
As I've said before though, there is a very good case for monitoring your DPF with an OBDII device and appropriate app, much better to know what's going on and keep an eye on the whole thing.
And this sort of issue is most definitely not unique to Jeep! Numerous other makes have the same issues, including BMW and Mercedes, not to mention trucks. Probably the worst affected are courier trucks who do lots of stop start work, though some of them have a manual push button regen available.
(And why the hell couldn't WE have a manual regeneration button. If it's good enough for truckies, why not us?)

Anyway, welcome to the new world of environmentally clean diesels. There is no doubt about the clean air benefits, but manufacturers need to lift their game, give us more info, and educate dealers better. The tripe coming from many dealers is incredible.


When I had my software updates done two weeks ago, including the Dec18 fix, the service department boss said there were no DPF issues at all. (I don't know what planet he lives on!)

I haven't driven far enough yet since then to know if anything has changed since the updates, but haven't had DPF issues myself at all, though I do very little stop-start work or heavy traffic, as my JGC is not my daily work commuter. I will however continue to monitor it all with OBDFusion.

Cheers
David
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  #1056  
Old 05-04-2015, 11:51 PM
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Re: Is DPF issue for 2014 CRD fixed now?

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Originally Posted by Benn0 View Post
You have a MY14 right?

Print it out and take it to them:
http://www.wk2jeeps.com/tsb/tsb_wk2_1801914a.pdf

Some dealers have no idea, unfortunately. And that isn't limited to Jeep.

Benn0,

For my case, I printed out the TSB and gave it to the service department. They just told me that it is for LHD and not applicable to my car!!!!!
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