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  #13  
Old 02-13-2014, 07:14 PM
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Re: The MY14 2nd Battery and DC Thread

As all of my cabling/2nd battery is removable I just ran the cable over the interior carpet, up under the rear seat, into the cargo area. My slush mat covers the cable in the rear foot well. It takes less than a minute to disconnect and remove the 1m length of 6B&S from cargo area to anderson plug near front seat and the activation lead from cigarette plug to relay box.



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  #14  
Old 02-14-2014, 04:19 AM
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Re: The MY14 2nd Battery and DC Thread

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Originally Posted by allypally View Post
Bob,

I can't get my isolator to supply power to my caravan battery, and to power my caravan fridge. I know the isolator is working correctly, and suspect the problem lies in the voltage drop in my wiring. The car has 6B&S and the caravan 10mm.
I measured the car supplied voltage at the caravan fridge and is showed 12.08V, which I suspect is so low that the isolator can't sense the caravan battery.
I plan to swap the caravan 10mm wiring for 4B&S cable to see if that fixes the issue.
If that fails, I will probably have to install a DC/DC charger.
You are on the right track. The cut-out voltage of my isolator is 12.8V so that wouldn't work on your setup either. The simplest way to reduce voltage drop is to double up the existing wiring. That might do it for you. Your 10mm wire sounds good but it might have more insolation than copper. The 4B&S cable that I have measures just 8.4mm accross the insolation but one knows for sure that it has 21.15mm2 of copper. 6B&S cable has 13.30mm2 of copper. The Projecta 150A trailer kit isolator comes with red and black 4B&S wire for both the car and the trailer. All told, you get 3kg of copper in the kit. I kept wiring lengths as short as possible and used crimped and soldered joints to minimise resistance. Also, the beauty of an electronic isolator is that it acts as its own circuit breaker eliminating the need for additional circuit breakers further reducing voltage drop. I also used a 175A Anderson plugs which I think you have also. The whole point was to minimise failure modes by avoiding circuit breakers, a DC-DC converter and the accompanying terminations.


The trailer is hooked up so I took some readings. With the engine idling and the fridge on, the control panel read, State of Charge 57% drawing 26A at 13.6V. The fridge takes 4.5A so the rest is going into the batteries.

Forgot to mention; best not to rely on body earth return to the battery. Firstly, it may have a higher resistance and secondly, all that current running through the body could cause electrolysis corrosion in places. Although, I note that Jeep uses body earth return from the battery to the alternator (copper isn't cheap).
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:58 AM
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Re: The MY14 2nd Battery and DC Thread

Hio All,

I have trolled the threads ordered my P3 which I will wire in myself but at the same time I will install the Dual Isolator and run cable to a 50amp anderson on the towbar so I dont have to pull the car apart twice.

My Crewman had a Redarc Dual Isolator which was fine and never let me down, but is there anything better ???

I am also going to install a DC to DC charger in the van, I have 2 X 180 AGM batteries already

I get the car this Wed so havent even looked at cable routes except the pictures on this forum.

So.

1) the DC to DC charger should be installed in the caravan not the car as to stop voltage drop ??
2) would I get away with a combined DC to DC charger/isolator in the car so as to reduce cost ???
3) 6BS dual cable will fit hidden from battery area to tow bar ???
4) If the car DC/DC option is a no go then what would be the recommended dual isolator..

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Old 02-16-2014, 01:39 AM
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Re: The MY14 2nd Battery and DC Thread

See the reply in red

Quote:
Originally Posted by chocco View Post
Hio All,

I have trolled the threads ordered my P3 which I will wire in myself but at the same time I will install the Dual Isolator and run cable to a 50amp anderson on the towbar so I dont have to pull the car apart twice.

My Crewman had a Redarc Dual Isolator which was fine and never let me down, but is there anything better ???

I am also going to install a DC to DC charger in the van, I have 2 X 180 AGM batteries already

I get the car this Wed so havent even looked at cable routes except the pictures on this forum.

So.

1) the DC to DC charger should be installed in the caravan not the car as to stop voltage drop ?? Yes, and as close to the van battery as possible, or the fridge if you have one.
2) would I get away with a combined DC to DC charger/isolator in the car so as to reduce cost ??? With a DC/DC charger, you may not need a separate isolator. No point in having it in the car, as the DC charger is used to convert a weak voltage, and boost it. Therefore needs to be close to the secondary battery.
3) 6BS dual cable will fit hidden from battery area to tow bar ??? Spot on. I recommend you run it to the back of the car, and terminate it with a fuse or cutout. Then run to both the trailer plug (12pin) and Anderson plug. Get a 175Amp Anderson not a 50A.
4) If the car DC/DC option is a no go then what would be the recommended dual isolator.. Projector do a less expensive than Redarc.

Cheers



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Old 02-16-2014, 02:20 AM
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Re: The MY14 2nd Battery and DC Thread

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See the reply in red
Thanks Allly,

Why 175amp ???
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Old 02-16-2014, 05:32 PM
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Re: The MY14 2nd Battery and DC Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by chocco View Post
Thanks Allly,

Why 175amp ???
I think the Jeep's alternator pushes something around 200 amps.
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Old 02-17-2014, 04:42 AM
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Re: The MY14 2nd Battery and DC Thread

To correct some impresions, a DC-DC converter does not "stop voltage drop" as someone said. The power loss in the wiring is the same in fact a little more because of losses in the converter. The converter lifts the voltage to a usable level but it comes at the expense of current. Nevertheless, it is a way of compensating where thicker wiring can't be used. Sorry for being testicle.
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Old 04-06-2014, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lt4vette View Post
This is not strictly a towing question, but does seem to be a reasonable place to pose it:
I've been searching the forum and other sites to figure out a good way to connect an auxiliary battery. Most seem to say that a dc-dc converter is the best way to go especially in the case of controlled output alternators,,as it maintains a high enough voltage for charging, and for fridges etc.
However, a disadvantage is that the charge current to the auxiliary battery is limited by the converter, to a lot lower value than if it was directly connected to the alternator when the alternator is producing at the higher level of its voltage range ( resulting in a lot more driving time to charge the auxiliary battery.)
So the question is: Is there a way (or a suitably intelligent converter) to connect the alternator,directly to the auxiliary battery when the alternator is producing a suitably high voltage, but via the converter when the voltage is reduced by the management system?
A related question: given that the alternator output is controlled by the electrical load at any given time, then if the auxiliary load (eg a fridge) was sensed by the management system, then there would be less need for a dc-dc converter to maintain a voltage high enough for the auxiliary load. Since the load must therefore be sensed somewhere after the battery, is it possible/practicable to connect the auxiliary battery and/load after the point at which the load is measured (vs directly from the main battery terminal). If so, where?
And then: are the power outlets in the JGC, especially the rear one, connected in a way that the load they supply is measured by the management system?
Thanks, Russell
You have to consider both voltage and current. I have no doubt tha: the Jeep alternator will adapt to ensure that it supplies enough current for connected loads. The issue is that it will not go to the trouble of supplying enough voltage to charge your remote battery one reason for this is that such a behavior would over-charge is own battery which 1, is connected via a lower resistance (and hence receives a higher voltage) and 2, may have been fully charged to begin with. Actually, the old, constant-voltage method of charging batteries meant that they were really never fully charged, because they needed to pick a voltage that would never over-charge (13.8v), that voltage will also never fully charge, most car batteries sit in the 70-80% charged state. Smart chargers get a around this.

I have a ctek d250s dual which works well for me. Sure it has a limited maximum charge rate. Ctek have an extra module that you can add (I think it's called smart-pass) that can pass through when there is enough voltage to charge at a higher rate but as per my comments above, I think you would be wasting your money because I don't think that this would happen very often as usually the jgc battery should be close to full charge.
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Old 04-06-2014, 04:49 PM
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Thanks Corey - that does clarify things for me.
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Old 04-06-2014, 05:31 PM
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A follow up question:
In the first instance, I plan to run only a fridge, and add an auxiliary battery later. would it be appropriate to install a ctec d250s up front to provide the correct voltage to the fridge, and add the batteries later?
Thanks, Russell
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Old 04-06-2014, 05:35 PM
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You should not need the ctek for just the fridge. In fact I don't know if it would work without the battery. The fridge should run down to 11.x volts which the jgc will supply. Just be sure that your cable is thick enough to supply start up current, unless you have an engel.
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Old 04-06-2014, 07:28 PM
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Re: The MY14 2nd Battery and DC Thread

I reported a few months back in this thread that I had some issues with getting power to my caravan via the Anderson plug.
The plug was wired though a Projecta Isolator, and when I connected the caravan, The Isolator could not detect the battery in the van, and therefore would not supply current.
I was of the opinion that the problem was due to voltage drop in the Van wiring, as although I had 6B&S in the car to the Anderson, I only had 6mm wiring in the van from the Anderson to the battery. That 6mm run was approx. 7-8Mtrs.
To rectify, I replaced the 6mm with 10mm, heavy duty battery lead. When making the final connections, I noticed that the 6mm earth wire was in fact not connected. The van manufacturer had omitted to make the connection.
In any event, now with 10mm wiring, and now actually connected, the voltage to the van battery is good.
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