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  #1237  
Old 03-03-2015, 07:34 PM
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Re: The Towing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by allypally View Post
I can't say that I have ever seen a Kimberly Trailer being towed with a WDH. I personally think it would be overkill, and as Bigskiddy said, it would be a disadvantage when offroad. I probably won't notice it on the back all too often. The Jeep will make mincemeat out of the hauling.
If you are buying from a KK dealer, listen to their advice, and before travelling too far, and after you have loaded up all your personal items, take the car and trailer over a weighbridge. Better to obtain your own readings, then rely on the factory averages. Then go out and get dirty.
Thanks Allypally. Based on Bigskiddy's comments and some more googling, it seems a WDH is out - which suits me fine. Do I take it from your comments on not noticing it that you have a KImberley Kamper?
Thanks,
Russell

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  #1238  
Old 03-03-2015, 08:11 PM
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Re: The Towing thread

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Originally Posted by LaNcE10 View Post
I dont think buying a dremel just to cut the rear would be a smart idea as i dont have anything to use it for again. what option do i have in cutting the rear? How about a stanley knife? Is there any other options to cut it before installing the tow bar? im kinda reluctant to remove the rear bar, i might not be able to put it back!!
Lance the towbar doesn't bolt up under the car like usual. It slides into the "chassis"... so that back bumper is coming off whether you like it or not!

Putting it back on is actually easier than removing it. There's a few clips... I think near the fuel filler... which will see you exploring your vocabulary of foul language. You can't get behind the clips to assist removal, and if you prod them too hard they burr and are less likely to want to come out. Have some cheap trim tools, spray lube, protective tape, flat precision screwdrivers... and thinking of it, maybe a feeler gauge or two. Don't forget your patience, as going easy is the only way.

I think a Stanley will be fine. You could even clamp an edge guide in place to stop the blade accidentally "tracking" the wrong way. If your cut is good, you might find that with some careful filing you can still forget about the pinchweld.

Cheers,
Steve
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  #1239  
Old 03-03-2015, 11:49 PM
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Re: The Towing thread

It4vette,

I think you've got it. The ball weight is the ball weight. However, the gross load on the rear axle includes the cargo in the rear, weight on the ball plus a full fuel load (OK, the KK doesn't have a ball so it's the tongue weight). Be careful with the KK's ball weight. It's already high so avoid putting heavy objects in the front of the trailer or the back of the Jeep. The Jeep's rear gross axle load rating is 1,687kg which can easily be exceeded with the KK if loading is not done carefully. Yes, a WDH will alleviate this but will probably destroy itself and the hitch if taken off-road. Also note that you'll need considerably more air pressure in the rear tyres to keep them cool. By one of my calculations I came to 30psi front, 45psi rear and 25psi trailer. This was based on weighbridge readings of 1,280kg front, 1,720kg rear and 1,180kg trailer. Yes I know, the rear axle was overloaded. It was the missus's porta potti.

I recommend putting the car plus trailer over a weighbridge weighing each of the three axles in turn in order to reassure yourself as to what is going on there. You'll be surprised at how close you'll come to the rear gross axle load rating. Note that for the purposes of axle load rating, both the left and right wheels together are regarded as being on one axle despite there being technically two independent axles on modern cars.
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  #1240  
Old 03-04-2015, 02:08 AM
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Re: The Towing thread

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Originally Posted by BobT View Post
It4vette,

I think you've got it. The ball weight is the ball weight. However, the gross load on the rear axle includes the cargo in the rear, weight on the ball plus a full fuel load (OK, the KK doesn't have a ball so it's the tongue weight). Be careful with the KK's ball weight. It's already high so avoid putting heavy objects in the front of the trailer or the back of the Jeep. The Jeep's rear gross axle load rating is 1,687kg which can easily be exceeded with the KK if loading is not done carefully. Yes, a WDH will alleviate this but will probably destroy itself and the draw bar if taken off-road. Also note that you'll need considerably more air pressure in the rear tyres to keep them cool. By one of my calculations I came to 30psi front, 45psi rear and 25psi trailer. This was based on weighbridge readings of 1,280kg front, 1,720kg rear and 1,180kg trailer. Yes I know, the rear axle was overloaded. It was the missus's porta potti.

I recommend putting the car plus trailer over a weighbridge weighing each of the three axles in turn in order to reassure yourself as to what is going on there. You'll be surprised at how close you'll come to the rear gross axle load rating. Note that for the purposes of axle load rating, both the left and right wheels together are regarded as being on one axle despite there being technically two independent axles on modern cars.
Great information Bob, thanks.
I'm surprised by the range in tyre pressures - especially the 25 psi in the trailer. How did you determine those?

Do you reduce them for corrugated/rough roads? On my trip to the Kimberley on the Tanami and Gibb River road with a much lighter camper, I reduced all my pressures from a blacktop 40 psi to the low 30's - based on nothing scientific!
Does you Kamper have air or spring suspension?
What is your tongue weight?
Sorry for all the questions, but I'm trying to decide between the KK and a Tvan which seems to be lighter but with less facilities.
Thanks,
Russell
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  #1241  
Old 03-04-2015, 03:29 AM
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Re: The Towing thread

Cooper tires has a great explanation on suggested tire pressures
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  #1242  
Old 03-04-2015, 03:56 AM
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Re: The Towing thread

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Originally Posted by nicjak View Post
Cooper tires has a great explanation on suggested tire pressures
Nikcjac, can you give me a link? I've had a look on the Cooper website, but other than general comments, haven't seen anything specific.
Thanks,
Russell
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Old 03-04-2015, 04:11 AM
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Re: The Towing thread

Cooper tyres guide


http://www.slippersopreis.nl/mediapo...e_pressure.pdf.
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  #1244  
Old 03-04-2015, 04:36 AM
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Re: The Towing thread

Thanks mate thats the guide i think is very handy to have in your glove compartment. It explains alot in detail.
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Old 03-04-2015, 06:21 PM
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Re: The Towing thread

If you're going to use a WDH, just remove the bars before offroading.
That's what I used to do with our offroad caravan.

Our Vista RV has a tongue load of 200-220 when loaded to 1600kg. I'm thinking of trying the WDH out just for comparative reasons.
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  #1246  
Old 03-04-2015, 07:18 PM
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Re: The Towing thread

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Originally Posted by Jarse View Post
Our Vista RV has a tongue load of 200-220 when loaded to 1600kg. I'm thinking of trying the WDH out just for comparative reasons.
Are you experiencing the porpoising I've described Jason? Or is your reason to make a comparison based on something else?

Cheers,
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  #1247  
Old 03-04-2015, 08:04 PM
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Re: The Towing thread

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Originally Posted by nicjak View Post
Cooper tires has a great explanation on suggested tire pressures
Unfortunately Cooper refers to the 4 psi rule. This greatly diminishes my confidence in them. The "4 psi rule" has now entered into motoring folklore despite there being no scientific basis for it. Apparently it originated some time ago as the opinion of some Pirelli tyre guy on a track somewhere in the US. Maybe it works on the track. I tested the rule in a "real" situation. I did 22 100km runs up the freeway and back. Apart from one data point, all starting pressures from 35psi to 48psi gave about a 5psi increase. This is useless for for determining optimum pressure. See my data attached. There are too many variables. Ambient temperature varies from trip to trip and from the start to the end of the trip. Road temperature varies as cloud cover and the sun inclination varies during the trip. Nevertheless there are people that swear by the rule. I think it's its simplicity that makes it so attractive, unfortunately it's wrong, or rather totally useless for practical purposes.
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Old 03-04-2015, 08:45 PM
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Re: The Towing thread

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Originally Posted by lt4vette View Post
Great information Bob, thanks.
I'm surprised by the range in tyre pressures - especially the 25 psi in the trailer. How did you determine those?

Do you reduce them for corrugated/rough roads? On my trip to the Kimberley on the Tanami and Gibb River road with a much lighter camper, I reduced all my pressures from a blacktop 40 psi to the low 30's - based on nothing scientific!
Does you Kamper have air or spring suspension?
What is your tongue weight?
Sorry for all the questions, but I'm trying to decide between the KK and a Tvan which seems to be lighter but with less facilities.
Thanks,
Russell
Yes, I was surprised at the variation as well. At each stop on a long trip I like to go around and place my hand on each tyre to check that there is nothing untoward going on. With all tyres roughly equal in pressure, I noticed the rear tyres consistently hotter. This was because of the high ball weight. Increasing the tyre pressure fixed this. The calculated pressures I got by applying the weighbridge axle loads to tables in "The Tyre and Rim Association of Australia Standards Manual" then adding 4psi for high speed. However one needs be aware that the manual specifies minimum pressures allowable for a given load. This is not necessarily the optimum pressure for performance. If you are interested, for a 265/60R18 LT tyre, the table in the manual can be expressed as: tyre pressure in psi = (load per wheel in kg - 302)/13.6

Yes I do reduce tyre pressures on rough surfaces. Also nothing scientific just in line with conventional wisdom. Contrary to what KK advise, I like to keep the pressures on the trailer on the low side to protect the bearings which as you know have been down rated.

My Kamper has steel springs.

My tongue weight varies depending how I load it. Last time I measured it, it was around 300kg. I have the drawbar extension.

I actually had my heart set on the Tvan but it was a smidgen too high for our garage.

I have the Best Bars tow bar and found that by upending the tongue that came with it gave a perfectly level ride for the Kamper when the car is in Aero mode - ideal. I found this out only after the KK dealer conned me into buying a ridiculously expensive alternative tongue.
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