The Towing thread - Page 139 - Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum

Go Back   Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum > Jeep Platform Discussion > Grand Cherokee - WK2 - > Export Grand Cherokee 2011+

Join Jeep Garage Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
  #1657  
Old 05-14-2016, 10:30 PM
mjt57's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2015 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Gippsland, VIC, Australia
Posts: 174
Thanks: 13
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 606
mjt57 has much to be proud of
Re: The Towing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by tasjeep View Post
I could be wrong but my understanding is yes the Jeep has a smart alternator. You will get some charge into your batteries without a DC-DC both not fully charged.
I have a Projecta DC-DC fitted.
I'll have a look at one of these. How does it go when an AC to DC charger (my van has a Projecta one of these) is also connected to the battery (but not functioning when driving, of course)?

If I don't fit one of these and just plug the thing in so it's being supplied from the Jeep, will this run the van's fridge OK?

Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #1658  
Old 05-14-2016, 10:47 PM
Member
My Jeep: 2015 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Tasmania
Posts: 89
Thanks: 0
Thanked 16 Times in 15 Posts
Rep Power: 503
tasjeep is on a distinguished road
Re: The Towing thread

The electronics in my van consist of a AC-DC charger, DC-DC, Solar Controller and a voltage regulator. All of them are Projecta and all work in with each other.
If you are talking about running the fridge whilst travelling, yes the current set up will work. If it is a 3 way fridge do not leave it connected for more than a couple of hours with the car turned off, or you will find the car and van battery flat.
Reply With Quote
  #1659  
Old 05-15-2016, 05:02 AM
BobT's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2012 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 2,229
Thanks: 1,108
Thanked 183 Times in 159 Posts
Rep Power: 74866
BobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond repute
Garage
Re: The Towing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjt57 View Post
Does the Jeep have one of these "smart alternators"? If so, it can't be that smart if it can't detect and charge a second battery properly without the use of one of these DC-DC units.

The van that we're getting has an anderson plug which connects directly to the battery. A Projecta battery charger connects directly to it as well. The Projecta gets its power from 240vAC.

Will the Jeep charge the battery properly in this config? Or, as others have suggested, do I need to install one of these DC-DC units?

I'm wondering how the previous owner managed without one.

If I should fit a DC-DC unit, I'd like to hear which ones that you who own caravans have.

Thanks

Martin
It is a so called smart alternator but like you and I, it ain't that smart. It knows what it has to do to properly charge the car's battery but when it comes to adding some unknown battery chemistry down 4m of so-so cabling whilst running a fridge, it's a bit too much to ask. As for the rest of your question, too hard for us, your van vendor should be able to tell you.
__________________
Ordered 9 Nov 2011 - Delivered 3:30pm Friday 13 April 2012
Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 3L CRD, Black Forest Green Pearl, Quadra-lift, Off-road Adventure II, Front Recovery Hook, Mopar Tow Bar, Mopar Rock Rails, 150A Projecta Battery Isolator, Tekonsha P3 Brake Controller, Bridgestone D697 265/60R18 LT, Kimberley Kamper Special Edition
MudMap M7 off/on road sat nav, Chief Recovery Hooks "chrome", Chief 3mm Sump Protection Plate, Bluespark pro+boost tuning module set on C9, Chief Lower Front Guard
Reply With Quote
  #1660  
Old 05-15-2016, 07:23 PM
Futuresystem's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 194
Thanks: 9
Thanked 32 Times in 28 Posts
Rep Power: 1430
Futuresystem has a reputation beyond reputeFuturesystem has a reputation beyond reputeFuturesystem has a reputation beyond reputeFuturesystem has a reputation beyond reputeFuturesystem has a reputation beyond reputeFuturesystem has a reputation beyond reputeFuturesystem has a reputation beyond reputeFuturesystem has a reputation beyond reputeFuturesystem has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Towing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobT View Post
It is a so called smart alternator but like you and I, it ain't that smart. It knows what it has to do to properly charge the car's battery but when it comes to adding some unknown battery chemistry down 4m of so-so cabling whilst running a fridge, it's a bit too much to ask. As for the rest of your question, too hard for us, your van vendor should be able to tell you.
I believe all modern cars have "smart" alternators these days, at least all that I have had experience with. They're designed to charge starting batteries, not other batteries including deep cycle auxiliary batteries.

And yes, the smart alternator initially produces around 14v, but when it senses that the start battery is charged it drops the voltage to closer to 13v. Sometimes that's 30mins, sometimes more.
13v is NEVER going to charge an auxiliary battery.
So you absolutely do need a DC/DC charger to fill that auxiliary battery, whether in the tug or (even more important) back in a caravan, and the cable size and location of the DC/DC charger, as well as the voltage it will function at all need to be correct. (The charger should be as close as possible to the battery so it's seeing the real battery voltage.)
However, if your alternator has dropped it's voltage from 14v, then throw in further voltage drop in the cable and Anderson plug, even many smart chargers won't work.

I use CTek D250s with the tug connection plugged into the "solar" input on the charger. That ensures it works even if it only sees less than 13v on the input.

Cya
David
__________________
If a job is worth doing, it's worth doing well. The quickest way out of a job, is by getting stuck into it!
January 2014 build white WK2 CRD 3.0 Polished alloy ECB 'roo Bar. LED light bar + LED spots.Side steps.
We HAVE our new Jeep, and love it!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Futuresystem For This Useful Post:
  #1661  
Old 05-16-2016, 12:21 AM
BobT's Avatar
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2012 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 2,229
Thanks: 1,108
Thanked 183 Times in 159 Posts
Rep Power: 74866
BobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond reputeBobT has a reputation beyond repute
Garage
Re: The Towing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuresystem View Post
So you absolutely do need a DC/DC charger to fill that auxiliary battery, whether in the tug or (even more important) back in a caravan, and the cable size and location of the DC/DC charger, as well as the voltage it will function at all need to be correct. (The charger should be as close as possible to the battery so it's seeing the real battery voltage.)David
Presumably mjt57 has the usual 50A Anderson plug with 6mm wiring power outlet, in which case you are absolutely correct. However, I have a Projects 150A battery isolator trailer kit. It uses 4B&S cabling which has 5 times the cross-sectional area of copper than 6mm wiring. There is no way I need a DC-DC converter. The only down side is that it requires 175A Anderson plugs.
__________________
Ordered 9 Nov 2011 - Delivered 3:30pm Friday 13 April 2012
Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 3L CRD, Black Forest Green Pearl, Quadra-lift, Off-road Adventure II, Front Recovery Hook, Mopar Tow Bar, Mopar Rock Rails, 150A Projecta Battery Isolator, Tekonsha P3 Brake Controller, Bridgestone D697 265/60R18 LT, Kimberley Kamper Special Edition
MudMap M7 off/on road sat nav, Chief Recovery Hooks "chrome", Chief 3mm Sump Protection Plate, Bluespark pro+boost tuning module set on C9, Chief Lower Front Guard
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to BobT For This Useful Post:
  #1662  
Old 05-16-2016, 12:53 AM
mjt57's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2015 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Gippsland, VIC, Australia
Posts: 174
Thanks: 13
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 606
mjt57 has much to be proud of
Re: The Towing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobT View Post
Presumably mjt57 has the usual 50A Anderson plug with 6mm wiring power outlet
Don't have anything, yet. First van, pick it up on Friday, Jeep has yet to have its towing accessories fitted. Hopefully on Thursday.

But looking at all the discussions, I think that I understand it. The load to the van will be directly from the Jeep's battery. If that drops in voltage, then surely the alternator will only look at that and charge it back up as required, just like it does if I have my Waeco fridge in the back going and the headlights are on, stereo is in full blast and any other load via the cigarette lighter sockets...
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mjt57 For This Useful Post:
  #1663  
Old 05-16-2016, 01:44 AM
Futuresystem's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 194
Thanks: 9
Thanked 32 Times in 28 Posts
Rep Power: 1430
Futuresystem has a reputation beyond reputeFuturesystem has a reputation beyond reputeFuturesystem has a reputation beyond reputeFuturesystem has a reputation beyond reputeFuturesystem has a reputation beyond reputeFuturesystem has a reputation beyond reputeFuturesystem has a reputation beyond reputeFuturesystem has a reputation beyond reputeFuturesystem has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Towing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjt57 View Post
Don't have anything, yet. First van, pick it up on Friday, Jeep has yet to have its towing accessories fitted. Hopefully on Thursday.

But looking at all the discussions, I think that I understand it. The load to the van will be directly from the Jeep's battery. If that drops in voltage, then surely the alternator will only look at that and charge it back up as required, just like it does if I have my Waeco fridge in the back going and the headlights are on, stereo is in full blast and any other load via the cigarette lighter sockets...
Good luck.
My alternator drops in voltage after a while no matter what I have connected in terms of accessories etc., and the van plugged in.
It did exactly that last month when I was towing in very inclement, overcast weather. From memory, it held 14v according to the EVIC screen for about 45mins, then dropped the voltage.
However with the CTek hooked up, car power going in via the solar connection on the CTek, which works at lower voltage, it continued pumping 20A into my Lithium batteries. That 20A current did not stop the alternator from dropping in voltage.

It would not matter what size cable and Anderson plugs that you have. Once that voltage drops, you are not going to charge the batteries in your van, period.

There is a lot of discussion on this matter on various forums, and I've yet to see where anybody has found a way to stop the voltage dropping.

Feel free to correct me if you can find someone who has, I'm all ears.

Cya
__________________
If a job is worth doing, it's worth doing well. The quickest way out of a job, is by getting stuck into it!
January 2014 build white WK2 CRD 3.0 Polished alloy ECB 'roo Bar. LED light bar + LED spots.Side steps.
We HAVE our new Jeep, and love it!
Reply With Quote
  #1664  
Old 05-16-2016, 01:53 AM
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2015 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Gold Coast Australia
Posts: 755
Thanks: 29
Thanked 122 Times in 106 Posts
Rep Power: 35773
John47 has a reputation beyond reputeJohn47 has a reputation beyond reputeJohn47 has a reputation beyond reputeJohn47 has a reputation beyond reputeJohn47 has a reputation beyond reputeJohn47 has a reputation beyond reputeJohn47 has a reputation beyond reputeJohn47 has a reputation beyond reputeJohn47 has a reputation beyond reputeJohn47 has a reputation beyond reputeJohn47 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Towing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjt57 View Post
Don't have anything, yet. First van, pick it up on Friday, Jeep has yet to have its towing accessories fitted. Hopefully on Thursday.

But looking at all the discussions, I think that I understand it. The load to the van will be directly from the Jeep's battery. If that drops in voltage, then surely the alternator will only look at that and charge it back up as required, just like it does if I have my Waeco fridge in the back going and the headlights are on, stereo is in full blast and any other load via the cigarette lighter sockets...
If you want to enter into a forum bunfight take that position back across to the caravaners forum, post it into the RV electrics section and sit back.
As David pointed out - this subject draws lots of alternate views - you get to make your own choices and spend your own money.
To add to your info pile - the Jeep alternator is temperature compensated amongst other things - with all that implies…..
The suggestion to isolate the vehicle from the van when stopped is certainly valid to avoid a flat vehicle battery, so you'll be well advised to go down that track.
Our van draws nothing from the Jeep - it stands alone on its solar into the batteries, with a compressor type fridge. I have a DC DC chager as a backup for both the van or fridge battery in the Jeep when the solar goes missing.
I do have a Piranha battery isolator - actually the first thing that was fitted. Our 2012 JGC operated perfectly with this setup for 3 and a bit years and our 2015 has happily inherited the same legacy.
John
__________________
2015 Laredo CRD
Billet Silver with Quadralift, front recovery hook, Mopar towbar
Upgraded from 2012 CRD that did the job brilliantly for 4 years
1975 Holden HJ 308 Monaro 4dr - oldie but a goodie
Reply With Quote
  #1665  
Old 05-16-2016, 03:16 AM
Futuresystem's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2014 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 194
Thanks: 9
Thanked 32 Times in 28 Posts
Rep Power: 1430
Futuresystem has a reputation beyond reputeFuturesystem has a reputation beyond reputeFuturesystem has a reputation beyond reputeFuturesystem has a reputation beyond reputeFuturesystem has a reputation beyond reputeFuturesystem has a reputation beyond reputeFuturesystem has a reputation beyond reputeFuturesystem has a reputation beyond reputeFuturesystem has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Towing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuresystem View Post
Good luck.
My alternator drops in voltage after a while no matter what I have connected in terms of accessories etc., and the van plugged in.
It did exactly that last month when I was towing in very inclement, overcast weather. From memory, it held 14v according to the EVIC screen for about 45mins, then dropped the voltage.
However with the CTek hooked up, car power going in via the solar connection on the CTek, which works at lower voltage, it continued pumping 20A into my Lithium batteries. That 20A current did not stop the alternator from dropping in voltage.

It would not matter what size cable and Anderson plugs that you have. Once that voltage drops, you are not going to charge the batteries in your van, period.

There is a lot of discussion on this matter on various forums, and I've yet to see where anybody has found a way to stop the voltage dropping.

Feel free to correct me if you can find someone who has, I'm all ears.

Cya
PS
I forgot to add:

Write to Projecta and ask them, please don't take my word for it.

EVEN THEY say that with a smart alternator, (like virtually all modern vehicles), they recommend ONLY the IDC 25 charger, which is a DC/DC charger very similar to the CTek D250S Dual, which boosts the voltage.

I repeat, a smart alternator drops the voltage to down around 13v.
You could drive for a week or more before you'd get significant charge into a deep cycle battery at that voltage (and even then, it wouldn't be much!)

As I said, don't take my word for it

Cya
David
__________________
If a job is worth doing, it's worth doing well. The quickest way out of a job, is by getting stuck into it!
January 2014 build white WK2 CRD 3.0 Polished alloy ECB 'roo Bar. LED light bar + LED spots.Side steps.
We HAVE our new Jeep, and love it!
Reply With Quote
  #1666  
Old 05-16-2016, 03:50 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 169
Thanks: 12
Thanked 40 Times in 32 Posts
Rep Power: 1506
indydof is on a distinguished road
Re: The Towing thread

The Gde tune I believe also stops the alternator voltage reducing which would be another option over the dc-dc charger.
Reply With Quote
  #1667  
Old 05-16-2016, 06:01 AM
Premium Member
My Jeep: 2015 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Gold Coast Australia
Posts: 755
Thanks: 29
Thanked 122 Times in 106 Posts
Rep Power: 35773
John47 has a reputation beyond reputeJohn47 has a reputation beyond reputeJohn47 has a reputation beyond reputeJohn47 has a reputation beyond reputeJohn47 has a reputation beyond reputeJohn47 has a reputation beyond reputeJohn47 has a reputation beyond reputeJohn47 has a reputation beyond reputeJohn47 has a reputation beyond reputeJohn47 has a reputation beyond reputeJohn47 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Towing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by indydof View Post
The Gde tune I believe also stops the alternator voltage reducing which would be another option over the dc-dc charger.
Sounds to me like a shortcut to funding a very expensive cranking battery due to being cooked.
My philosophy with both our WK2s has been to keep well away from fiddling with the Jeep electrical system. Too many tricky bits involved that are beyond my capacity.
John
__________________
2015 Laredo CRD
Billet Silver with Quadralift, front recovery hook, Mopar towbar
Upgraded from 2012 CRD that did the job brilliantly for 4 years
1975 Holden HJ 308 Monaro 4dr - oldie but a goodie
Reply With Quote
  #1668  
Old 05-16-2016, 11:36 AM
mjt57's Avatar
Member
My Jeep: 2015 3.0L WK2
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Gippsland, VIC, Australia
Posts: 174
Thanks: 13
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 606
mjt57 has much to be proud of
Re: The Towing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuresystem View Post
PS
I forgot to add:

Write to Projecta and ask them, please don't take my word for it.

EVEN THEY say that with a smart alternator, (like virtually all modern vehicles), they recommend ONLY the IDC 25 charger, which is a DC/DC charger very similar to the CTek D250S Dual, which boosts the voltage.
I believe you! And I'm looking at the IDC25 charger. Seems to be the best priced for what features that it has.

And no, the last thing that I want to do is to initiate a flamefest on any forum. Too many bad memories of them in Fidonet and later on, Usenet.

Back to the Jeep.

Do this then?

Fused heavy duty cabling direct from battery to towbar. Anderson plug connected. Then from there into the van's boot to the IDC, then from it to the battery, and that's it?

If that's all I have to do then it should be a half hour job (I'm getting an autoelec to fit the brake controler (Tow Pro Elite). He'll run and fit off the power cabling while he's at it.

Still deciding whether to have one Anderson outlet and a red-to-grey anderson double adapter for the power and the ESC on the van, or to run two lots of cables from the battery. Perhaps run the ESC supply into the 12 pin plug (either P8 or P9) and rewire the ESC plug into a 12 pin one.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Towing thread steveo Grand Cherokee - WK2 - 290 12-05-2015 03:04 PM
Towing questions. First time towing looking for some input. JTS97Z28 Grand Cherokee - WK2 - 5 08-25-2012 04:53 PM
*****WK2*****2011-??? Grand Cherokee pricing and info thread discussion THREAD!!!! White WK Swagga Grand Cherokee - WK2 - 136 12-13-2010 12:52 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2012 - JeepGarage.Org
The Jeep Grand Cherokee Owners Community

JeepGarage.org is in no way associated with or endorsed by FCA US LLC. Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Ram, Mopar and SRT are registered trademarks of FCA US LLC.