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  #1693  
Old 05-24-2016, 06:10 AM
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Re: The Towing thread

Martin, you prompted me to go to the handbook for our 2015..... And the recommendation for a WDH when towing an ATM over 2268kg isn't there. What is there is a bit of guff about not exceeding axle loading and WDH.
I should have checked! But can't see that anything has changed except for a bit of legalese to put the onus on the vehicle owner.
The figure WAS in the handbook for our 2012 however, and I actually have the confirmation in writing as a bulletin from Jeep in the early days of the WK2 out here. The recommendation applied to all available suspension systems.
So - it seems nowadays you have to make the axle load calculation!!!!! And make a decision.
Good luck.
And no, airbags can't transfer load to another axle.
John

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  #1694  
Old 05-24-2016, 06:41 AM
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Re: The Towing thread

Air suspension and WDH is an interesting topic. Jeep recommends it above the limiting weight, but Land Rover specifically warns against it in such vehicles as the Discovery. I have a couple of friends who tow with Disco 4's, and they notice no handling difference between towing their boats or caravans.
I'd like to know if there is any fundamental differences between the LR and Jeep air suspension systems.......
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  #1695  
Old 05-24-2016, 07:44 AM
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Re: The Towing thread

The Jeep QL system is closed nitrogen with a pressurized storage tank feeding the compressor, and I understand the LR system is open to atmosphere.
Between our 2012 and 2015 (both with QL) we've clocked up probably 70k of towing on all sorts of surfaces, including Cape York and the GRR twice.
No issues whatsoever, so far, and we're off to Darwin next week.
Whether the LR system fights a hitch I don't know but the QL isn't bothered.
I've tried the van out without the WDH and really didn't notice any major difference - but - when we first got the 2012 I checked my insurers and their response was that in the event of a claim they would expect me to have complied with all manufacturer recommendations.
As I mentioned earlier, I have a Jeep bulletin noting the 2268kg threshold, although it seems to have gone missing from our 2015 handbook. Our van goes 2200kg plus or minus.
So, the WDH gets used, only taken off if we are getting extreme angles when poking into corners of the shrubbery.
John
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  #1696  
Old 05-24-2016, 09:06 PM
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Re: The Towing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by John47 View Post
Geez Bob!
No more fuel for this fire!
Can't help stoking the boiler
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  #1697  
Old 05-24-2016, 09:31 PM
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Re: The Towing thread

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Originally Posted by mjt57 View Post
I think that the manual says to use a WDH if the ball weight is above a certain figure, something like 230kg. I'll have to read it again.

It was suggested to me today that these airbags can alleviate the use of the WDH. I politely said that I'd "look into it".

Whatever, I asked here just to make sure. I suppose that the Caravan forum does have a lot of info there but I was aiming at a Jeep specific forum such as this.
The guy is confusing the Jeep Quada-lift system with the full on hydropneumatic suspension systems as in fancier cars like the Citroën. These systems react instantly so could conceivably shift weight to the front wheels in time keep steering control but I don't know for sure. However, the Jeep system is simply an air bag ground clearance adjustment and self leveller. It takes way too long to react to real time dynamics.
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  #1698  
Old 05-25-2016, 09:57 AM
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Re: The Towing thread

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Originally Posted by BobT View Post
The guy is confusing the Jeep Quada-lift system with the full on hydropneumatic suspension systems as in fancier cars like the Citroën. .
No, he was refering to aftermarket airbags which are installed inside of the coil springs on the rear and are pumped up at the servo.

He said that he's fitted them to dozens of 4WDs and used them on his own vehicles to tow trailers which were used to carry race cars all over the place.

His view is that WDHs are a waste of time if you have these air bags fitted.

The guy has his own engineering business.

So, you can see my dilemma, I hope. I get that info from someone who has had experience in such things and yet I read info on here and other forums and website which either concur with him or contradict him.

Go figure...
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  #1699  
Old 05-25-2016, 06:20 PM
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Re: The Towing thread

The poly bags make a softer spring able to reduce the drop from the weight on that axle.
I have them on my falcon and use them when towing the race car and they are quiet good for a vehicle that youndrive daily and dont want to affect the ride quality with stiffer springs.
The WDH transfers weight from the rear axle to the front axle and distributes the weight of the load better over both axles, i use both on the falcon.
As far as i understand Poly bags wont do this.
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  #1700  
Old 05-25-2016, 07:11 PM
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Re: The Towing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjt57 View Post
No, he was refering to aftermarket airbags which are installed inside of the coil springs on the rear and are pumped up at the servo.

He said that he's fitted them to dozens of 4WDs and used them on his own vehicles to tow trailers which were used to carry race cars all over the place.

His view is that WDHs are a waste of time if you have these air bags fitted.

The guy has his own engineering business.

So, you can see my dilemma, I hope. I get that info from someone who has had experience in such things and yet I read info on here and other forums and website which either concur with him or contradict him.

Go figure...
Very simple physics Martin, and sorry to say, the guy hasn't a clue.

Lifting the vehicle vertically at the rear using an airbag can not transfer load anywhere, let alone return weight to the steer axles. All it can do is raise the pivot point.

In my personal experience someone running or operating an engineering business does not necessarily equip them for qualified advice on engineering matters.
And of all the trailed things that I've seen involved in incidents (and I've seen a few over the years) - cars on trailers have been by far in the majority.

Perhaps you should take your enquiries further afield and research a bit more as it appears you don't quite grasp the concept behind a Weight Distributing Hitch.
John
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  #1701  
Old 05-25-2016, 09:47 PM
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Re: The Towing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjt57 View Post
No, he was refering to aftermarket airbags which are installed inside of the coil springs on the rear and are pumped up at the servo.

He said that he's fitted them to dozens of 4WDs and used them on his own vehicles to tow trailers which were used to carry race cars all over the place.

His view is that WDHs are a waste of time if you have these air bags fitted.

The guy has his own engineering business.

So, you can see my dilemma, I hope. I get that info from someone who has had experience in such things and yet I read info on here and other forums and website which either concur with him or contradict him.

Go figure...
That's interesting but that guy is wrong in so many ways. As John says, stiffening the rear springs has nothing to do with weight distribution. Imagine putting so much weight in the tow ball so that the front wheels just come off the ground. Then, pump up the rear air bags. What would happen? The front wheels would come off the ground even further. Also, a trailer with a race car on it is not that heavy. Race cars are built light then there are no water tanks, gas bottles, cooker, fridge, bedding etc. and it has a low centre of gravity. I doubt it would be much heavier than my Kimberly Kamper which doesn't need a WDH? A 3t full height caravan is something else entirely.
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  #1702  
Old 07-23-2016, 07:40 AM
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Re: The Towing thread

Hi guys, first time on the forum.

Looking over this thread, there's so much info, I'm finding it hard to find exactly what I need. We pick up our new GC Overland next week, primarily to tow our Kokoda Force caravan which is also on order.

I've ordered the Haymen Reece tow pack with ECU, and Redarc Tow Pro Elite, which I intend to install myself with a fair amount of spare time on my hands. I've found some relevant posts to get me going, but I was wondering if its beneficial to install the Anderson Plug for the van batteries at the same time. Is there a link/post that others have used to complete the whole installation in one go, and relevant advice to go with it.

While I'm on a roll here, should I order the caravan with ESC? Doesn't the GC's Trailer Sway Control take care of any towing stability issues? I've heard that they could possibly work against each other.

Forgive me if I've asked too many open ended questions on my first post, but I will continue to move through the threads and see if I can answer some myself. cheers guys
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  #1703  
Old 07-23-2016, 09:31 PM
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Re: The Towing thread

Hi Squibby.

Congrats on your purchases.

It will make it easier to run all the cables that need to be run to the back of the car all at once. You'll need to lift the carpets, remove door trims, remove spare wheel and its associated plastic tub to do all of this.

And do what I should've done - run extra cabling from the battery to the back in case you need to install an extra Anderson plug for whatever purpose. In my case, I need to do it again for the van's fridge.

Oh, and yes, get the ESC, whether Al-ko or Dexter, installed on the van. I don't know if the Jeep's änti sway can do the job if you get a real sway up. You can manually apply the van's brakes separate from the Jeep's via the Tow Pro, but if you concentrating on driving the car during such an event having the van's ESC do the work for you makes it easier to manage.
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  #1704  
Old 07-23-2016, 11:21 PM
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Re: The Towing thread

Squibby I wrote this up a while back. I'm not sure what electricals are supplied with the HR towing system, but have a read and come back with any questions.

MY14 DIY Trailer Socket Wiring

Cheers,
Steve
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