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  #1165  
Old 12-05-2014, 06:50 PM
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Re: The Towing thread

Good points Ally. I heard a rumour that you can currently get ball weight scales for $50 at Repco... I think until later this month.

Cheers,
Steve

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  #1166  
Old 12-05-2014, 09:23 PM
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Re: The Towing thread

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Originally Posted by Barboots View Post
Good points Ally. I heard a rumour that you can currently get ball weight scales for $50 at Repco... I think until later this month.

Cheers,
Steve
...or make one yourself. See my post here The Towing thread . You might not save much but it's fun. However, note that you are measuring the static weight, that is, the weigh with the car stationary or traveling at constant speed. In a hard braking situation much more weight goes onto the ball particularly with a heavy high centre of gravity caravan.

Now for a bit of pedantry that is of no use at all to HorseyGirlsMum but I'd like to clarify some thinking on trailer stability. Provided the trailer is not overly top heavy and is well sprung and well damped, it will be inherently stable regardless of whether the weight is fore or aft or the draw bar angles up or down. The instability comes from the car or rather the car/trailer combo. Too much weight on the tow ball takes weight off the front wheels increasing instability of the car which reflects to the trailer then back to the rear of the car in a positive feedback loop and woohoo, up goes the adrenalin.
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  #1167  
Old 12-05-2014, 10:44 PM
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Re: The Towing thread

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See the pic to see my setup. As said before the bow-shackles are nominally 11mm S-grade galvanised rated at 1.5t WLL. This is the highest rated shackle that fits the hole.
I picked up my new caravan a couple of weeks ago. The caravan guy had earlier told me that the shackle had to be compliant so I left it to them to supply it. I thought it looked like the one in your pic so I checked it out just now and sure enough it is stamped WLL 1.5T. Like you say anything larger wouldn't fit the Mopar bar.
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  #1168  
Old 12-06-2014, 02:44 AM
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Re: The Towing thread

Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions. Snuke, I had trouble with the lights not working on the float. The rather excellent local auto sparky fixed this as well as the pump that wouldtn't work. Can I suggest you take your float to a weigh bridge and get it checked? I had a Cris Float before and it was plated as 1325Kg. I nearly died when empty it weighed in at 1920Kg and 210Kg on the ball!! I'd been towing three horses and all the associated cr@p that goes with them. The Pajero I had tows up to 3T if >180 Kg on the ball, I was so illegal it's scary. I've got a tow ball weigher and I know that the ball weight is not enough, I just didn't realise how much it isn't.

The light problem was due to the Jeep having LED's and the float not, the Jeep's module? just couldn't power the lights. Stallion floats are fantastic and the owners, Tony and Stewart, have bent over backwards to help. Towing with the Pajero was fine (bar the weight issue!) but swapping to the Jeep has been problematic. I agree it's great to tow with but has idiosyncrasies that will be annoying until sorted e.g. the internal lights don't work now. I'm not sure how much is due to having some work done at the dealership or just due to the wiring being so differently. I do know that the P3 wiring was less than satisfactory according to the sparky and I believe him. I'm annoyed at being told that the tongue could't just be turned over. To be honest after all the trouble with the lights I assumed it was another Jeep thing!

Once again, thanks for all your help.
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  #1169  
Old 12-06-2014, 05:04 PM
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Re: The Towing thread

Further to thoughts on stability - for those that tow, this video is worth a look.

It has been around for a while now and is caravan oriented but a horse float is just as relevant, maybe even more so as the loading can vary significantly.



John
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  #1170  
Old 12-06-2014, 07:30 PM
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Re: The Towing thread

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Originally Posted by John47 View Post
Further to thoughts on stability - for those that tow, this video is worth a look.

It has been around for a while now and is caravan oriented but a horse float is just as relevant, maybe even more so as the loading can vary significantly.



John
What a great video! I would never had thought that high yaw inertial would be an issue in fact I would have thought the opposite but it is a convincing demo. It just goes to show how weird things become at speed. In this case it is definitely the trailer that initiated the instability. Something to think about when next passing an oncoming B-double on the Newell Highway.
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  #1171  
Old 12-06-2014, 08:56 PM
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Re: The Towing thread

Adding to that problem with horse floats is that with straight loads like we have, when you have one horse, you now have a very offset side weight bias too.
We have never had any kind of wobbles at any speed, but we have also never had to swerve and ours is not a massive float.
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  #1172  
Old 12-07-2014, 05:09 PM
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Re: The Towing thread

You don't have to look far on the internet to find video of a trailer or caravan with death wobbles.
Over the years we've seen a few with plenty of potential……..and come across a few that realised that potential.
Getting your combination correctly set up is a worthwhile exercise - hence the value of the Bailey Caravans video.
And in the case where you have to tow a float or similar that isn't loaded correctly, at least if you are aware of the situation your decisions when driving will be affected to compensate, and mitigate the risk.

John
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  #1173  
Old 12-07-2014, 07:52 PM
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Re: The Towing thread

For those that tow regularly there is a very interesting thread on Caravanners Forum which is titled "Making Caravans Stable":
Caravaners Forum • View topic - Making Caravans Stable
This thread is now up to 26 pages, but you can cut through a lot of the waffle and you'll soon realise those that know what they are talking about.
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  #1174  
Old 12-07-2014, 09:37 PM
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Re: The Towing thread

Actually I thought the video John posted covered pretty much everything within the 26 pages that an ordinary bloke can take on board with their caravan. All without the undercurrent of bad blood which pollutes almost every technical thread on Caravanner's Forum.

Cheers,
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  #1175  
Old 12-07-2014, 10:25 PM
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Re: The Towing thread

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Originally Posted by Barboots View Post
Actually I thought the video John posted covered pretty much everything within the 26 pages that an ordinary bloke can take on board with their caravan. All without the undercurrent of bad blood which pollutes almost every technical thread on Caravanner's Forum.

Cheers,
Steve
Steve, I think that the video that John posted was a very useful illustration of what incorrect weight distribution can do in the real world, but to say that it covers everything included in the caravanners thread is fanciful.
New caravan owners need to be aware that towing has it's dangers, but they also need to know what can be done to overcome it. Don't underestimate the ordinary bloke and his thirst for information particularly when it comes to his safety and that of others on the road.
The case for vehicle design, caravan design, add on safety such as ESC, WDH etc are all discussed, and I believe interesting to most caravanners (and other heavy trailer towers).
As for bad blood, there are always going to be conflicts of opinion which need to be taken account of when reading forums and most people can see who knows what they are talking about.
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  #1176  
Old 12-07-2014, 10:48 PM
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Smile Re: The Towing thread

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Originally Posted by Blackadder785 View Post
extract….
New caravan owners need to be aware that towing has it's dangers, but they also need to know what can be done to overcome it. Don't underestimate the ordinary bloke and his thirst for information particularly when it comes to his safety and that of others on the road.
Unfortunately in my experience around the traps there are plenty who operate in blissful ignorance. I see little thirst for knowledge demonstrated.

I deliberately didn't link across to the CF topic - i hope the spite and puffed up tone that Steve refers to doesn't come across to here.

Those that do wish to further explore the subject can certainly head over. (i have been following the thread - unfortunately Collyn Rivers always seems to stir the blood in some - i declare myself to be on his side in most things).

The video was posted in context of ongoing discussion regarding horse float stability and wasn't intended as a complete treatise on towed vehicle stability. Good to see some have had a look - and maybe taken something away.
John
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